Kauri - Healing Oasis

SYK Episode 116 - Kauri - Healing Oasis

 MUSIC

 Kauri [00:00:04] I just realized that I couldn't actually even love others, because it was really hard for me to even love myself. I think that's the biggest thing I'm learning now from deconstructing is that it's okay to love myself. I feel like I've always been in like this survival mode and because it was all just “endure to the end,” it's all part of God’s Plan. And now I'm realizing, Whoa! Some people are just bad people who do bad things. There's nothing to do with God. But now I have the tools and the knowledge to actually heal what was broken. 

 Brian [00:00:42] This episode is a testament to the human spirit. Today's guest talks about overcoming darkness, rejection, and multiple traumatic events. Kauri bravely shares her experiences with racism, sexual abuse, incarceration of a loved one, and even death. At times, she felt very alone as she struggled to make sense of her world with little or no support, sometimes not being believed by those around her. Sometimes the trauma being caused directly by those who professed to support her. Kauri’s story is dark, gut wrenching, hopeful, beautiful, and inspiring. Her ability to heal herself, find her footing, and become an advocate for others gives us a brief insight into the beautiful, caring person she is. And I am so grateful to her for allowing me to share her journey with you on Strangers You Know? 

 MUSIC

 Brian: All right, so you tell me, how are you feeling? 

 Kauri [00:01:35] I am so nervous because no one has ever asked me about or I guess cared enough. And recently in April, I had written a letter to my family basically in detail about me leaving and stuff like that. And some of them wouldn't read it. So, for me, I was kind of telling my husband I didn't know that other people cared. I guess some like time out get emotional. But and I think maybe that's why I've been so nervous because I didn't know it was important or. Yeah, yes, but I'm excited. 

 Brian [00:02:11] Why would you think you're not? That's not important. 

 Kauri [00:02:14] I'm a lot of how I was raised and then I think just a lot of maybe not even the responses, but maybe the lack of response on people that are very important to me in my life. Yeah. So, even just telling people on social media that I was leaving and why was the hardest? Because I knew I didn't have my family's support. But I also understand why. And that's something I think I'm deconstructing is understanding. I'm sorry. I know that. By the way I was raised, like, or why I felt or maybe why I wasn't even able to tell my family some of the things I had personally been struggling and going through is just because it's not always reciprocated, I guess, or wanting to be heard. It's just easier, I think, for my family because we have been through a lot of things that it's just easier to if it's not part of God's plan than or if it's against what they believe is God's plan, then it's just not really worth addressing. And I am the first person to officially leave out of nine kids, so I know it's a huge adjustment for them, but that is something I related a lot to with Meg story. Is she notice like you think you want to go to your people when you're struggling? And so I think it's just hard when you get to that point where you realize that they won't be those people for you during that kind of. 

 Brian [00:03:48] Kind of when you need it the most. Right. 

 Kauri [00:03:50] Exactly. 

 Brian [00:03:50] I mean, this is a very fragile time and very emotional and very scary. And you're alone. 

 Kauri [00:03:56] Yes. And then all the like the way I was raised, too, within the church, I was like, I don't even know where to start. I guess just. 

 Brian [00:04:04] Start wherever you want. 

 Kauri [00:04:06] I feel very overwhelmed just because there is so much to my story. And I was kind of telling him on the way here, why this like the first time sharing like about my childhood. And so it's almost like a little bittersweet that you even know my dad. Yeah. 

 Brian [00:04:23] So, make it easier or harder. 

 Kauri [00:04:24] Um, I. Think it's probably a little bit. Easier because I would love to know more about him, since I probably don't know him the way that most people do. Other interesting upbringing, which did a lot of how I handled situations and things anyways. I don't know. Sorry, I'm just I'm excited to be here. I think I'm just I'm like I said, I just didn't know people care. 

 Brian [00:04:51] I wish even when you don't think they care, they care. They're not responding to you, them not knowing how to deal with it. Not that they don't care, right? 

 Kauri [00:05:01] Yeah. No, that's. 

 Brian [00:05:02] They have to they have to tell themselves something. They have to come up with some reason in mind that makes sense. Yeah. And it may not match the one you said because the one you said is very painful and awkward to them and they almost can't accept that. Right. So, they have to come up with something. They have to replace it with something that works because. 

 Kauri [00:05:22] Something that makes sense to them. Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. 

 Brian [00:05:27] Let's take a second. So, since we're recording this, we can go back and delete all of the pauses or we can reorder it or whatever. So, whatever you're comfortable with, if you want to go back, you mentioned your childhood. You mentioned the letter that you wrote. You meant there's a decision behind that. Where do you want to start? What's easiest for you? And thank you for being here, by the way. 

 Kauri [00:05:48] Thank you for having you. Really? What? Yeah. What this is like giving. I don't know. I felt like I was telling him, like, I don't know if I feel, like, qualified to be on here because I feel like I'm very much in the thick of everything right now. Yeah. And I feel very overwhelmed. So, I feel that I don't want to overall mother followed by sharing my story. And I think I apologize a lot just because I realize me telling my truth is really hard for important people in my life. Yeah. So, I've been nervous to, like, tell people or be vulnerable about my personal life because I don't want to offend anyone. Yeah, we'll just do our best. 

 Brian [00:06:24] But keep in mind too, they have the option to not listen if they're offended by something, they don't need to listen. And you might even let them know ahead of time, Hey, I tell my story, and if you don't want to know the whole thing, don't listen. Yeah, you know, but, you know, so that's I mean, and then they're adults. So, that being said, don't feel like you have to talk about anything. If I ask a question that makes you uncomfortable, don't answer it or just say, yeah, I don't want to talk about that. Or if you say, give me a minute and you want to take a little break or whatever, we can do all of that. So, I want you to be comfortable. I want you to feel good about it. And it is you mentioned it's a process, but it's a process for all of us. And it lasts a long time. And I talk to people at different stages of that and they don't quite know what stage they're in because I've never done this before. 

 Kauri [00:07:09] Yeah, I think that. Yeah, yeah. 

 Brian [00:07:11] So, a lot of the processing they do on the spot, it's like, Oh, I've never thought about that. Why was that a big deal? 

 Kauri [00:07:18] Or Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I guess you could start with so I come from a family of nine. 

 Brian [00:07:25] And where do you fall? 

 Kauri [00:07:26] So, I it's really I am fourth from the youngest. Okay. So. So, you're at the top of the second hand when you were on the table are five here and four here and. I'm closer. To the bottom. So, I'm like the last we, we joke, um, because my oldest sister and my youngest brother for their part two, my sister, my mom oh yeah. Because of it. So, my mom, I was adopted from Western Samoa and that was my mom's first husband. So, my mom had four biological kids and then she adopted four from Ireland. And so I have a brother from Tahiti, I'm from Samoa. And then I have to a younger brother and the younger sister from Tonga. Wow. Yeah. So, four and four. And then that father, he left our family when I was six and we moved up to Salt Lake and that was my mom and dad. Okay? And together, her and Jeff have my little brother Tanner, okay? And so he was the ninth one. So, growing up, that was different just because I was six when our first father left with our nanny and we had grown up with him and then all of a sudden we had this new dad. And sometimes I feel so bad because that time I don't know if, you know, like, Jeff's first wife died. Yeah. And when he met my mom, I don't think she thought he was going to get all of the kids. Like, I thought he think he thought we would have a every other week. But my dad that were with, like, officially left our family and didn't want anything to do with us. So, then Jeff got in with eight more kids plus five. Wow. And that's also which is really difficult because the combining of families is obviously very hard for sure. But then my dad ended up leaving when I was a junior in high school, and that was right before my brother Jeremy was supposed to go on a mission. And that was a really difficult time, obviously, besides my car accident, which I noticed, we also have similar people, which is also even more crazy, but I don't know. How. I would say that. So, then my brother left on a mission and I was finishing out my senior year. So, my mom, we stayed in our Farmington house. And so even coming out here like to Centreville, where I feel like a lot of my teenage years I was raised before my family was upgraded to Logan is very bittersweet, at least for me. It was like where my family was together. Um, and then I do feel like ever since we last, it's been, there's just a lot of moving parts. And I see that a lot of it has to do with religion. And I think something else just well, I know for me personally, growing up in Dana's tell me it was really hard to grow up in a white family being a different color. 

 Brian [00:10:19] Why was that? Tell me a little bit about that. 

 Kauri [00:10:22] I'm really lucky that I had other adopted siblings with me that could understand. But growing up for sure, there are always racist comments or just actions towards other people. Things that we learned in church grow is very difficult. Like when people would do racist things to us as kids that hurt our feelings and then we'd go and tell our mom. So, the lady said this or said I wasn't allowed to like friends weren't allowed to invite me to their house because I was brown. But as soon as they found out that my mom was white and I was adopted from like a good LDS family, and then they would let me come over and those sort of things, because we did grow up for a while in Salt Lake. Those are things that I never understood. And in an effort for my mom to try to keep us from being hurt, she dismissed a lot of that. Like instead of addressing like, well, what they did was wrong, she would be like, No, they didn't mean it. Or No, people didn't mean to push. Like, No, they didn't. You know, everything was dismissed or once it was really apparent, once we started getting older and there were so many kids at school that would go around us in circles and then say, like. Our moms didn't want us. And I think that for me and my brother, because we wanted to protect our younger siblings who were adopted, we tried to put that on ourselves, like making excuses for other people to try to protect them. That only continued to get worse as we got older. And I feel so bad because I don't want to put blame on my mom because I know she did the best that she could. Right. And she didn't always have the best parenting partner. So, she parent did a lot on her own with nine kids. That's really exhausting. But she grew up from a small town and her own family. Like they make racist comments all the time, so it's really hard to educate herself if she doesn't know. Right. And I feel like me and my other adopted siblings who are people of color, we see that now. We're able to see that she did the best that she could. Right. But there's a lot of miseducation that we never got that would have helped our self-esteem. 

 Brian [00:12:29] Yeah, you see that now. But that didn't help when you were back then. Yeah, when that was happening. And she didn't know how to handle that and she didn't appreciate or understand fully what you were going through. 

 Kauri [00:12:40] And I think that's a lot of even when we kind of deconstructing in general and talking about religion is for my mom in particular. And everything was God's plan. Like everything went back to the church. So, if we had people who were mean to us, it was like our feelings didn't matter. Like this is all kind of part of God's plan. This is all we all have hard times. But the more I started learning the way my mom grew up and experiences that she had, it makes sense why we don't in my family actually talk about hard things. We cover it up and then we act like it's all part of God's plan. And I think for me, just with all the traumas, because it was really difficult, my son has you meet people and you know they shouldn't be married. My mom went from one marriage and in three months she was married to someone for 20 plus years who left her and made her be that mother role where she had a full ride to BYU. And my mom, after the first semester dropped it and start getting pregnant. I mean, she's 18. She's already married. By the time she was made sure she had four kids. And so I understand a lot of why she is the way she is. I'm just at a point in my life now where I see I have to deconstruct so much from the way I was raised and even now. So, leaving the church, I see it even more. And just like the more I learned to with the history of the church, it makes me so sad that we can't have our feelings validated because my mom or I really should stop saying mom pew. I finally just genuinely believe that like that's what God wants and it makes me sad they could accept that. 

 Brian [00:14:18] So, tell me, when you say that's what God wants, I think that's what God wants. God doesn't want you to be teased and ridiculed and made fun of right now. Why would they say, Well, that's what God wants, but how do you explain to me how that works in there, how you think that works in their head? 

 Kauri [00:14:32] I think the way that they view the gospels. So, anything hard that comes in, it must because like this, I guess I see that for some people is easier to believe in this plan than take responsibility for bad things happening or that they might be a part of it, or that they might have to actually change and do work instead of just accepting that it's part of like, Oh, this actually happened and this is real. It's like a way for them to disassociate. 

 Brian [00:14:59] Yeah, I think that's a brilliant comment that they it's just easier for them to rely on a higher power or a bigger, greater plan instead of taking the responsibility to say, no, this is wrong, I need to do something about it or I need I'm by not participating or by participating. I'm participating either way. 

 Kauri [00:15:16] Yes, yes. And because even now, sometimes a lot of my family members are very upset. I'm so vocal on social media. I do have to say that you love gay people. Why do you have to say that? Cops are all cops like? And I'm like, Well, I wish you guys just actually read what I'm saying instead of what you want to read or hear. And it's like I had one of my family members was so offended that I wrote a post one time and I said, we shouldn't be judging people who don't wear garments. But she took it as, Oh, because I wear garments like that. I was like shaming her for wearing garments. 

 Brian [00:15:53] Yeah. So, she didn't listen to the statement that you said she took it as a personal attack because this is something she believes in. And if you're against it, then you're attacking me. 

 Kauri [00:16:03] Yes. 

 Brian [00:16:04] You're not attacking this principle. Then you clearly were saying this principle is wrong. 

 Kauri [00:16:08] Yes, the principle. 

 Brian [00:16:10] So, do they feel guilty or shameful about that? 

 Kauri [00:16:16] I think they feel guilty. The conversations I've had with some of my older siblings are very active and I kind of revert back to my siblings just because when I first father left. They were all 16 and 18, and she literally put us into a bedroom and told us she didn't want to be or that anymore and that she had a new life, the nanny that she had just got home from her mission. She was so she was a 24 year old Polynesian woman. She came and she helped get my younger siblings who were in Tonga with our dad, which is and that's also it's very unfortunate. But some people are like, how did your mom not know? And my mom is so naive. Like, we didn't learn the birds and the bees like my she honestly thought because he was this priesthood holder and because he was waiting to be said that anything he ever said was right or true. I mean, he used to say really weird things, like he told my older sister, my mom, like, don't go to Pakistan. It was Dixie College, don't go to Dixie because there's going to be an earthquake and everyone in there who's wicked is going to fall down on them. So, they wouldn't go to like this pageant to go support her friend. He would just say really weird things. And so I know from my older brother who was really close with him, she struggled because there were a lot of manipulating pieces with that first dad and crazy because we found out he's like in the High Council in Arizona, he doesn't have any kids. He's still married to his wife. But it's crazy that someone like him to truly abandon his family like he made all of us go out on the porch in his house because his wife didn't want us in the house anymore because that made her uncomfortable. So, his 24 year old wife is in this house. All of us are little, tiny kids, babies. I was six and he kicks us out and has my mom come pick us up. And it's like I've said that so many times when you think about it and then you think about it in the religious aspect, it's like, How is someone like him? On the High Council? He abandoned his entire family. She had an affair, which is I don't judge. She will have affairs, but I still don't think that's appropriate or good. But I also know that everyone's life, you know, but then it's like you just starts a whole new life and is able to be like, I don't know. Do they ask you questions? Like, Do you fulfill your, like, fatherly duties? It's like there is no reason besides the fact that his wife just didn't want to be a stepmom to us. So, then he kind of just left us all with him, my mom. And that's also I feel really bad. I don't know the way that, you know, like the ties I do. I do think they're great people. They are. And I think just when my family came into the picture, we all just weren't the most welcomed. And so us growing up in Taylorsville, at least for my siblings, was really difficult. And I think that's also where we get a lot is maybe more. Maybe just even me and my insecurities. It doesn't feel. Like there's really a place like our dad left and then we're put to a new family and we knew they didn't really want us. It was hard cause like the cousins a lot of times would. Tell us, like, Well, we know your dad left, and now you're like, you know, you're kind of stuck in our family of. Your little kids. I know that those cousins didn't mean to. I think growing up and like I said, like, I know my mom didn't want. You to, but. When I first. But so our older siblings understood why he left. But we're all so everyone from my brother Jared down, we're about seven, six, three and four. So, we're pretty young. And we did understand why were moving. We didn't understand why your dad didn't want us. So, my mom just kind of pretended he didn't exist for the younger kids and she would cut him out of pictures. And any time we brought him up, it was like, don't talk about him. Like you didn't exist. And now, you know, just her new dad. But we knew it was different. I would just like and then it's. Also like for some people, it's like, I really. Do love Jess and I know he did the best he could. She was given. A really hard. Plate himself. But even like so weren't really close to his kids. They didn't like us. And then it's understandable to they had their own life and then their mom died. And then months through Dad's getting married to another person with eight kids. So, we lasted in Taylorsville up until I was about 11, and then it was getting too hard for my other siblings with the cousins because all the ties live so close. It was just clear it was too hard. I think. A lot of the aunts didn't want to. Accept my mom because they. Missed, you know, their just first wife. I think we just came in a really hard time. So, I really don't I don't touch the ties at all because they are great people. And but from my point. Of view, we. Were never really accepted and we soon we got sent. So, we moved up to Farmington when I was 11. Then that's where my sister, she went to be a mom. Then we started going and then that's where I became like we became really good best friends with Gabe Hanson's family. Okay. So, she lived on my street, okay. And we're in the same ward and their brother. So. Cooper He was very close with my brother Jared. We Gabe were besties and then the younger brother with my brother such that it just matched up and we did a lot of family vacations with them. So, it was like going to our cabins. And then Gabe with just the Hansons there to see their at our house or their house. Sorry. But yeah. So, that's how we then became friends with them. And up until my car accident. So, probably those four years in Farmington, they were really awesome. 

 Brian [00:22:01] So, you went know. No, you're good. You when you were younger, before you were six, you're with your dad and you didn't feel like you were quite accepted there when he said, you're not. We're not. I'm not here anymore. So, he leaves? Yeah. So, then you moved to a different city. 

 Kauri [00:22:14] We moved with a different dad. 

 Brian [00:22:16] And you didn't feel accepted necessarily in that family? Yeah. And you're 11. When you moved to Farmington, did you kind of feel accepted finally? 

 Kauri [00:22:25] I did. Okay. I, I loved Farmington. I looked so funny. I loved junior high. Yeah. I definitely felt accepted. And I loved our ward. The Farmington 14th Ward was amazing. And it's funny because, like, I remember one other people would come from the state and they would talk to our ward and they would always say, everyone wants to be part of the Farmington 14th Ward because you guys are so awesome. Like, it did feel like our youth were awesome. We were very, you know, but it's funny, when I look back at it now. I'm like, Oh, like the stuff. We did that other people were admiring about my ward are actually super like toxic indoctrinated things that I'm like. 

 Brian [00:23:10] Like, what? Can you give me an example? 

 Kauri [00:23:11] Oh, yeah. So, we have a lot of those. 

 Brian [00:23:13] Yeah, I'm so many of you. 

 Speaker 3 [00:23:16] So, have you. Ever heard of this thing called Missionary Week? Yeah. So, we would do that. And it was the first week of the summer, and all of us got, like, calls, and then we had to follow all the mission rules and then we go teach someone in our Stake. So, we had that. And June is also do I think Moroni's quest. 

 Brian [00:23:36] I've heard of that we haven't done that here that I'm aware of but yeah. 

 Kauri [00:23:39] So, Moroni's quest in there. Felt like just as a ward and especially after he passed away, it made us even stronger in a weird way, but also really hard because were all in the same ward and then obviously gay passed away. Some people got hurt, some people didn't. And so really, I really do feel like once until the car accident, it changed the dynamic of our entire where our entire ward where we actually ended up getting split. I think that was probably a healthier thing for everybody. 

 Brian [00:24:09] I do you think that was an intentional change just to give everybody like a fresh start. 

 Kauri [00:24:13] Yeah, our ward was getting bigger, so definitely was. But they had split a ward that had been together forever. So, I think but I do think it was intentional. I, I wouldn't be able to like back that up or anything, but I know that it was getting really hard just because the driver was in our ward. Everyone, were all people who didn't get hurt. And I know. 

 Brian [00:24:34] So, before we talk too much about it, you mind giving us just a little, little bit about what happened? Oh, you see the accident. I know what you're talking about. I'm not sure our listeners do so. 

 Kauri [00:24:43] Yes, really. Um... 

 Brian [00:24:45] And again, don't do anything. You know, if it makes you uncomfortable, you can skip the whole thing. 

 Kauri [00:24:49] So, no. You're good. So, when I was 15, my Stake had done Moroni's Quest, and we just my ward had come off a spiritual high from it and we just really wanted to spend more time together after. So, we had all planned that day before we left. More on this quest. Like, let's all try to get together in like have a sewing party and just be together one last time, kind of spend end of summer. And it was me and it's crazy and I sorry. Just when I think back to it now because there are so many tender mercies that happened that day and it's hard to even talk about it now because now that I've left, people assume I can't have spiritual experiences or believe in my past spiritual experiences. And it's hard for me to be like spiritual experiences are just from Mormonism like anyone. One of your beliefs or you have it, you can have a spiritual experience. 

 Brian [00:25:46] But and you don't need to give full names or anything. Oh. 

 Kauri [00:25:50] So, I had the driver and another girl on my ward and they came over to my house and my mom had just left. And I remember her, my mom and actually Jeff's mom at the time, they were all going to they used to be like a singing thing where you they would do like skits and something in Salt Lake, I don't know. And you, like, sit there and eat dinner and it's like comedy. Okay. So, they were going all the way down to Salt Lake for that. And just within 15 minutes of them leaving, this all happened. They left. And my mom, if she was home, she would not have let me go get in this car because she was already she had like me driving with other people, but we drove down and were all just like, well, let's just go to Harmon's and pick up some food and snacks for. And we just did a mass text on our ward to me at our neighbor's house who live just across the street from me, who had a pool. So, these two girls and me, were driving down the road and I said, Can we stop and pick up Gabe? And they were like, Oh, okay. Just because I also like people who know Gabe. Gabe was very like annoying and funny and just like a tease. And so he was a lot of energy and I was like, No, please, I just really want to pick him up. And I wanted to come with us, like, fine. And I walked up there to the door and she was just getting ready to actually go to the movies with a different friend. And I remember his mom's in the kitchen and I was like, Oh, Kristen, like, make Gabe come with me, please. And she's like, You love Corey. Like, just go for a couple of minutes and you can go be with your friends. And so I remember he went by to like his dad, like, I love you. And then we joked about him wearing pink. He wasn't wearing his being fans, but he was wearing pink toms. Tom's, shoes are so big back then and then after we have some other people in our ward and we had gone to Hermes, which is so crazy, all of our windows rolled down and this is and randomly the driver, she's like, Let's just go down this road for fun. Like were. We were less than a mile away from the mean. Like were so close to making it so simple. And right before we drove down that road, I went to go sit in the back and Gabe grabbed my shirt and pull use like car. He's like, you can sit up front with the seatbelt and I'll sit in the back and I know you turn down that dirt road because I was turned around without my seatbelt talking with Gabe the whole time. And all of a sudden everybody I think in the car just felt like were going super, super fast and the windows rolled down. And I remember looking over, we had just picked up two kids from our ward. They're from the same family. And I remember the boy that was here sitting across me who had a seatbelt. He is normally someone who is a huge rule follower. So, even being able to go like joyriding, normally he would have said something. And I remember looking over at him like, Why are you okay with this? And he's like, because like kids die doing stuff like this. And I remember saying that out loud and that girl from the frat was just like, No, it's just fun. And she was doing this with her hands. And all of a sudden I was looking right at Gabe, and the next minute I knew our car had turned like it had hit something. And I remember hearing screams and I flipped all my I remember I just turned around back because I was on my knees talking to Gabe and I just flipped around and I held the bottom of. I was so scared then. Obviously I didn't wake up to the end of my life and I remember it was the people in my life, like there smacking my face and sticking me with some needles or something, and they're like, Keep your eyes on me. Like she's already gone twice. And then it wasn't until after my E.R., when I was finally in my room at Primary Children's that then they told us, like, she died twice, like she shouldn't be here. And the crazy thing is, when I had my accident and during the time that they said I was dead and they had been sticking tubes trying to get me, and this was before I even was on the flight. They said that I had died. And even that with the Life-Flight people, the paramedics who came in saved us, like a lot of them were in our ward, in our neighborhood. They were so close on call. And so I just think that was it was so traumatic. So, many lives were involved with all of us being connected. You know, it wasn't just like, Oh, you got hit and then you don't know who they are. We all knew each other. And so I think that made the healing process for so many people so hard. And you have Katie, the driver who is feeling horrible and she can't even go to church. I mean, then you have Gabe's family. Who? They lost somebody. And but they have to see that everyone else kids. Got to home. It was a really difficult time. But during the time that I was, I guess you would say, pronounced dead, when I woke up from my flight when the paramedics were hitting me. I'm crying. I just said, I know he's gone. So, when I was gone, what I saw was Gabe. It was just all blue, silver swimsuits, whatever. He just looked at me. He had this face like he knew it was time to go. And I remember he just, like, grabbed my head and said goodbye. No, it's like you go. He, like, I was very confused where were, but I never hear you say anything. You just like mouth, like I love you. I'm going to be okay. And then some hand like, it's weird, but I remember some hand came in and then he disappeared. OKUPE. The end of my life. I have the feeling like it was my hope. Strong. So, something I struggle with things getting better. So, I think going back to my topic. Of. When this happened, everyone. So, we had just gotten a new bishop. Oh, sorry. It's okay. 

 Brian [00:31:59] If you want to take a break, you can do that too. 

 Kauri [00:32:01] Sometimes I have. I'm going back to my accident. Because the same time. I was trying to heal from this was the first time that I was. Sexually assaulted by a Religious leader. And if during this time, people would tell me, you're so strong and I had to miss. My first half of my sophomore. Year. I got pancreatitis from an accident from being ejected. So, like I had an at home teacher from school and I also had at home nurses and things like that at home seminary. And so I met with a lot of like religious people to obviously help me try to understand everything that was happened. It was it was the most difficult because at the same time, I was being abused by somebody and I was scared to tell because this person was person you probably would've told like, oh, I think so. Instead of kind of like everything else with my growing up, I was like, This is all part of God. Like if he has the priesthood that he was put, then like so. In my head. I. That's how I justified that it was okay. And then you focus not really even and I don't even know if it was really healing, but just sometimes I use the thing like, like a survival mode where it was like, well, I don't have any other option than this heart experience is kind of like is for my testimony in the way I was raised, the way that, you know, like when gay passed away and everyone told me he died. Because. He's bringing all the lost tribes of Israel in the afterlife. He's doing the missionary work for them. And so my missionary work on the side since I lived in, I clearly died twice. Like then I need to bring people to the part, to the gospel. That was my job. Like, that's why I stayed. And so I think between that and then obviously being 15 and not having the best father figure or someone that I don't not even confide in, it was just a really confusing time. 

 Brian [00:34:23] To say the least. 

 Kauri [00:34:24] Yeah. Oh, 

 Brian [00:34:26] You okay? 

 Kauri [00:34:26] Yes. Thank you. 

 Brian [00:34:28] Want to take a break? 

 Kauri [00:34:29] Oh, yeah, That would be great. Is that okay? 

 Brian [00:34:32] Yeah, absolutely. 

 [00:34:33] BREAK 

 Brian [00:34:34] Love, He is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. And he came out and married his husband, and just. They're having a great life. They're happy. They're happy. Things are great. Yes. And I couldn't wish more for him. But my one of my wife's big thing was if God has a problem with him, then God and I are going to fight because I've got a problem with that God that's going to have a problem with this kid that I just love so much. And I just want that. And he's made his life miserable. For what? Yeah. 

 Kauri [00:35:02] And I just got the chills because that takes a lot of strength for your wife to, like, see that, especially not just like you guys, this generation, but also your guys' generation that's like, not tolerated. So, for your wife to come out, I'm very impressed. Yeah, that is like that's what Christ like love is or. 

 Brian [00:35:19] Yes, love your neighbor. 

 Kauri [00:35:20] Yes. It's just loving him and being like, no, there's no way that God's going to hate him for that. Right. Whereas some people I grew up. Right, that is all they think. Yes. They can't even fathom that God would accept that. Right. 

 Brian [00:35:33] And God does accept if God is against that, I don't want have anything to do with that God. 

 Kauri [00:35:37] Yes! Thank You! And people get so offended by that. There's you know, I'm just like, there's no way you can tell me about that. God's going to create a plan to have his kids feel like he's going to create a plan where everyone comes back. Because as a father, don't you want all your children come back? And that's the thing that my husband actually did. He was like, Why would God why would any father create a plan where his kids couldn't all come back to him? Right. And that sort of hit me like, oh, wait, do you actually start thinking about churches plain of happiness? And you're like, wait, doesn't even include all of God's children, right? How is this the only plan? Yeah. 

 Brian [00:36:08] And it's ironic that he calls it the plan of happiness when you don't get to have happiness until after you're dead. Everything here is just exact obedience, shame and guilt. That's all it is. 

 Kauri [00:36:17] Thank you. Yes. And you? Oh, I see. I hate something else that I'm loving is making more friends. You start finding a community of people who actually love. Beyond what you were always taught is acceptable to love. Right. 

 Brian [00:36:33] There's something wrong with those people or their, you know, whatever it's like. There is nothing wrong with. There's nothing. They're wonderful people. 

 Kauri [00:36:39] I was and it's like it's not funny. But when I look back, I was so racist. I was so homophobic. Everything like comments I've made to people I think, to like on high school, me trying to fit in. Yeah. And I'm just thinking how horrible. I feel so bad for every non LDS kid because. 

 Kauri [00:36:56] You always. 

 Kauri [00:36:56] Knew the kids who weren't Mormon. They were the ones who weren't in seminary. You know what I mean? 

 Brian [00:37:00] They weren't invited to people's houses. 

 Kauri [00:37:02] Yes. They weren't invited to people's houses. They were the outcasts. Yeah. And then not getting married in the temple. And that was before we even decided to step away. It was. It was such an eye opener. I'm like, I've been a member my whole life, but because I didn't get married in the temple, no one in our family, a girl literally asked me what temple I got married in. I told her we didn't get married in temple and she turned her chair and didn't talk to me. The rest of the society and I'm like, I'm re people think I'm like a Molly Mormon but like I like so I was just like, I would never do that. Someone was just me. 

 Brian [00:37:30] So, why do you think she did that? Why does she have that reaction? I mean, not just to be mean, but what was going through her head? 

 Kauri [00:37:36] I wish I knew. Right. So, and it was interesting because, yeah, were just making introductions. It was like a normal thing. And I said were in temple and it was the weirdest thing. She just went, Oh, and then she turned her chair and didn't talk to me. But we're were so Relief Society I didn't even get to ask her where she got me. It was just so weird. That was my first experience of feeling like a nonmember or just like an outcast, I guess, in the church. And we didn't really go back too much after that. 

 Brian [00:38:03] Yeah, that was kind of like, Oh yeah, I don't want to be here anymore. No one associate with this group. Yeah, I was having a problem with the church leadership, them being so vocal on something that was just so un Christ like in my mind. 

 Kauri [00:38:13] So, un-Christ like. 

 Brian [00:38:15] And I just couldn't see around it and everybody else like just nodding their heads. Yes that's right. Mhm. Mhm. And I'm like no exactly. 

 Kauri [00:38:22] You're like where is this. How are we, how are we going to say that we are the one and only true church and then not love everybody. Right, because it's like, like, oh well like comments I've heard from my family. Well, there's nothing wrong with those people. I just they're doing is okay. So, there's nothing wrong with those people. 

 Brian [00:38:41] Stop calling them those people. Thank you. Right. Yeah, because you can do that with everybody. Every person. We have everything and we're always smart. And that's where that's kind of why this podcast came about is, is to two things. One of them is just with the algorithm and the news cycle. Talk about us and those people and wherever you are on any topic, they're talking about how you're always right. And those people are a bunch of idiots. 

 Kauri [00:39:05] Yeah. 

 Brian [00:39:06] And it's like, Have you met those people? Have you sat down and talked with them? Have you sat across the table and had a conversation with them? 

 Kauri [00:39:12] Get to know who they are, where they're from, and why they do the things they do. 

 Brian [00:39:15] Yes. And hear their story. And so my concept with this is everyone gets to hear our conversation. Everyone gets to meet and hear your story and say, hey, you know what? We have far more in common with those people than we ever imagined. 

 Kauri [00:39:29] Yes. 

 Brian [00:39:30] And so I just love that we just and so I want to have as many different types of people on the show and just talk about their stories. People need to hear his story and understand that and just say, I don't understand that those people are like, you know what? Sit down and talk with them, ask them questions, tell you yes, they'll tell you whatever you want to know. And it'll all make sense and you'll start to think, Oh, and he's not going to try to convince you to be trans people. It's not going to rub off on you. 

 Kauri [00:39:54] Well, not just his the lack of education. It's exactly how we talk about things to make everybody more comfortable. Why can't we educate people on racism, on the LGBTQ community? Yes. Why is it so bad to teach people so that then more people can be more aware and more comfortable? 

 Brian [00:40:12] Yeah. And I don't like the idea of saying, well, we don't understand, though. Have you tried have you sat down and asked? Because if you did, they'd probably tell you and then maybe you would understand. 

 Kauri [00:40:22] But if you're. 

 Brian [00:40:22] Not going to ask, you will never understand. You can't sit here and just judge and then think you'll the one day understand it. But all you say is, well, we don't I don't understand how they you don't. 

 Kauri [00:40:31] You don't you haven't because you. 

 Brian [00:40:32] Don't care to know. And that's really the only thing keeping you from really knowing. 

 Kauri [00:40:37] It's such a good point. I mean, that's the same thing. So, it was like my oldest sister, but he was with my letter. She said she started reading it and she lost the spirit. So, her and her husband will not read this letter to the monster about my personal, like my abuse, you know, like telling them because they couldn't feel the spirit. And it's like if nobody is willing, if you said, ask that person what a true story or why you are doing the way they're never going to know. And so they're just going to sit there in their ignorance. Yes. And sit there and judge people. But it's like you have not even tried you have not tried to educate yourself. You have not tried asking them, having a conversation with the source that you're spreading rumors about, you know. Right. And now I'm with you. It's just like get to know someone, get to know them and listen to what they're saying, not what you want to hear from. 

 Brian [00:41:24] When you are on the other side of that equation, you had all the answers you knew. 

 Kauri [00:41:29] Everything okay? That's amazing. But just a little comment. When I saw it in 2020, when I started to really dig, I started asking my older siblings these questions because I had admitted to Temple. So, I'm trying to ask some things that I'm learning. And one of the things that someone said, I remember being like, What? She's like, Well, I know it's true, but I don't need to look into the history. I don't need to know the facts, I don't need to know the bad stuff because this works for me. And I was like, How can you ignore the foundation of where all your truth and this is coming from? But like, just be fine sitting and not like, oh, I don't really care about the plague. I don't care that someone was here. I don't care about the precedent. I don't care that gay people can't go to heaven like they just because it's so they have all the answers when they're stuck inside their bubble. 

 Brian [00:42:13] It's so convenient to know everything and have all the right answers and know you're right man. That was so nice. 

 Kauri [00:42:18] And then to even have the privilege to say, I don't need to know the history. You don't care why your black brothers and sisters weren't allowed to have the priesthood right until the late seventies. Like but because it didn't affect her, because she's you know what I'm saying? And those are the things where for me, it's like if you really believe in this God and you love everyone, then you're going to educate yourself because it's helping your brothers and sisters who you don't understand their situation, but you're willing to want to have the conversation you're wanting to learn. But yeah, it threatens their whole belief system. Yeah. So, why would they do that? 

 Brian [00:42:52] That is a scary door to open, especially as I think as you get older, because what if you've been wrong your whole life, you're in your fifties. 

 Kauri [00:43:01] That's what I want to know more about. 

 Brian [00:43:03] And you're like, I was the one saying that. I was the one when someone was really struggling with an issue. I said, Have you prayed about it? Instead of saying, Tell me how that makes you feel? What can we do to help with that? What can we do instead? I said, You want a blessing? Do you want a prayer? It's like, Yeah, that doesn't work. 

 Kauri [00:43:20] And, but like you see, like, because that is how the history of most religions, you know, like instead of asking anyone, it's more like, let's pray for you or this is part of God's plan or whatever, right? You see how, how everything hard starts getting covered up with that. The simple of the excuse of what God will tell us in the next life or all these answers. And for people where it's like, But if I'm going to be putting my whole entire heart and like life and money into this religion so I can get back to heaven with my family going be so difficult for people who are trans, for people who are just for any person of color who doesn't understand or anyone, you know what I'm saying? So, it's just like sometimes I get so troubled that just because it doesn't affect certain people, my family, because they've never had to deal with it, and they just automatically assume, well, that's just not part of the plan. Like, you know, just don't be gay. That's their that's their right child. 

 Brian [00:44:14] You just prayed and had a blessing. 

 Kauri [00:44:16] Yes. Or well, maybe if you pay your tithing that month, then. 

 Brian [00:44:19] So, like many of them will say, if I am going to be gay here and it's all going to be taken away in the afterlife and it's going to cause me nothing but pain here. And you're saying I can't fall in love and be with someone that I care for here? Let's just end it and go to the afterlife. Yes. 

 Kauri [00:44:33] And it's such an. 

 Brian [00:44:34] Awful predicament to put him in. 

 Kauri [00:44:37] Yeah. And it's just like, how can you say that? Well, God loves all of his children and then have the prophet now say, like, oh, well, there's no place for you here. 

 Brian [00:44:46] Yeah, you really don't care. So, for so much of. 

 Kauri [00:44:48] It, it's just like that's where it is. You know, people it's so easy for some people, like you said, because it's easier to just stay there. But that's all. I'm just wondering, some people are like, why don't you care about our neighbor next door? Or You know what I mean? 

 Brian [00:45:03] Even if they're not your neighbor, what if they're ten cities away? Can't you care for them anyway? Yeah, this is a difficult situation. There are somebody out there in this situation and you going to church and paying your tithing and sustaining the brethren is making their situation worse. 

 Kauri [00:45:16] Yes, yes. And it's just like the whole thing. Well, even with like now getting too much into politics. But, you know, you see people who are against gay marriage, then they go out, they're gay. So, it's like, guys, we all have to be active in helping protect the people who are suffering we like whether that's, you know, in a conversation with the family or you're like, I don't think that was really nice. I know that she's lesbian in like she probably doesn't appreciate those. And it's like when I started to start doing those things, I'm trying to. 

 Brian [00:45:46] Be an advocate. 

 Kauri [00:45:47] And advocate and help and oh my goodness, I did not realize being so vocal about, I don't know, not wanting to be racist or loving the LGBTQ community could make me lose so many followers. Yeah. And I think I was most surprised. And I don't care. Like, you know, we don't. I don't care about followers. 

 Brian [00:46:06] No, but followers, friends, family, neighbors, all of it. You're losing people from all of them. Yes. 

 Kauri [00:46:12] And I just it's like, why? Why am I the bad person or any of us for wanting to love more of God's children? And I think it's the hardest thing for me is the way that I think probably most of us race, and especially if we've left any sort of saying is, I love my family, I love them. So. And so it hurts to think that they like they're praying for me and fasting for me, putting my name on the temple because they actually don't believe in a god that would let us all be together. And I think that's true is just when I came home from BYU, Hawaii, I eventually, just through my family, could tell something was off. And eventually I broke down and I told them that I was real. And the first thing that my mom did was when you get used to the bishop, like she was more worried about my worthiness. And I had been that time as well. I had been talking to like a missionary who was on a mission and my mom specifically told me, she said, don't tell him about what happened because he's. Going to the woman and meeting the mom like it was my fault. 

 Brian [00:47:19] Right? 

 Kauri [00:47:20] You didn't think. And I knew. And I see that I struggled so much. But I it's like for me when I was at school had asked and they had happened for squatting and starting. And so that whole semester I had a eating disorder where it's like I focus more on my eating disorder so I could forget about the abuse. And I was so worried I'd be kicked out of school. And that's, that's why I'm, like, really impressed with Jackson going to BYU, like, having to go through that. That's really lonely. And I being so far away. And I remember I had been called the N-word by a boy who had been from Utah, and it was on campus. And I remember just crying. And when I tried to bring that concern up with my mom. It was always my fault. And I so I do think that I know that my mom didn't need to because she just she grew up differently. And I'm not making excuses for her, but it's very hard to something I'm learning and I'm very much deconstructing from is learning to accept myself for being brown. I think I assumed going out to. BYU Hawaii would be like a. Kind of I think we talked about beginning was just wanting to be excited and telling my husband. I was like, I feel like in high school, especially for people who do know me, I am very different. I was like a complete different person there. Maybe some people knew me. I was very was someone say like Molly Mormon and then with just everything with the car accident, I for me it was I was like, no, because I really thought like, I have to save people. I have to bring them back. I, I really thought and I really thought when I was in the middle of abuse and I thought when my dad left, I just really thought like, okay, God is testing us. Like, God wants my family to be strong. Like we've been through two dads who've left our families. And, and it wasn't even just them leading. It was also like it wasn't just like our parents separated like and I know he didn't need to, but a very traumatic experience happened right before my brother left on this mission and with concerning my dad packing up his bags. And it was just me and Jeremy who were home and I was crying and I woke my brother. And I was like, Jerry, like, it's leaving. And I remember it. And he picked me up and he put me in their room and you said, just. Just pray to God and tell him, like, please don't let same ruin our family. So, I'm sitting in my room praying in my brother's head to get my dad to stop from leaving. And they. Remember grabbing his. Keys to go to use like, I'm sorry, I can't do it. You were leaving. It just seemed like this huge traumatic things keep happening in our family, but we don't address them. So, it was just like my brother was supposed to just go on a mission. A couple of weeks later. Sometimes I wish that we would have been taught more that yes, God is there, but that is not an excuse for things that are happening. But that's how were taught, you know. 

 Brian [00:50:22] Like that's how you explain everything. Yeah. Without having to understand it because they don't. And without taking responsibility for it because they won't. 

 Kauri [00:50:30] Yes. 

 Brian [00:50:31] It's such a copout. 

 Kauri [00:50:32] Yes. So, just feel like there's just so many instances in my personal life and how obviously I was raised where these huge things happen that are not okay. But I learned to accept them and never work through them because it was all part of God's plan. Yeah. 

 Brian [00:50:52] And the good thing about those emotions is if you never address them, then you just repress them. Then they never come back up again later in uglier ways. Right? They just go away. 

 Kauri [00:51:01] Exactly. 

 Brian [00:51:01] You know, they just repeat and keep on going that worse. 

 Kauri [00:51:06] Yes. And I see that. I mean, I see that in my own like my own mom's life. And like you said, you could nobody says you when you're older. It's like, do you living your life in a certain way for 50 years? That's going to be really hard to admit. Like, Oh, well, maybe this isn't true. Yeah. Like, maybe I have been living my life, like, under something false. And I see through my mom and everything. She's. Gone through and the way it has come off on some of my siblings, it will always be so much easier for them to cling on to that than even like even a little cut open into the wounds of all the trauma that we have. And so it's really hard is with all that it's I've noticed like just deconstructing now is just deconstructing from everything that I thought the world was like. It's like I, I said like a lot sexual abuse slide because besides being terrified but it's like... 

 Brian [00:52:00] And young... 

 Kauri [00:52:02] And young and. 

 Brian [00:52:02] Not having support. 

 Kauri [00:52:03] Yes. 

 Brian [00:52:05] And that's and being betrayed and taken advantage of. 

 Kauri [00:52:08] And thank you. When I came out and I told even just a brief part of my story, which I thought was like to help people know that, like, it doesn't matter who abuses you. Like, get help. Talk to somebody. So. And is that something I now that I know now I'm like, if that if you went to a trusted adult, though, and none of those trusted adults, it's like, I understand why now no one comes forward. I had it's like the one person who did start abusing me as a religious leader. With the priesthood. Very high calling. And then the second one is like trusted family, adults who are telling me that it's all my fault and that I should have gotten into Bishop sooner. It wasn't about your mental health. And then I do think another damaging thing is once I finally got help, I got help through the LDS church therapists because that's like the church is going to cover those costs. And so that's what we could afford. And then through that healing that I started with her, it was all church circulating. So, now it's like I'm just digging deeper into God's plan for me, you know? So, now it's like, well, all this abuse happening and like the karma and your dad's leaving you and you being adopted and being brought out, like, just all these crazy things. It was like even starting in my healing when I started to get help, it wasn't best help. And so I'm such an advocate for you can go to one therapist, but just try. It's okay to try more and it's okay to not just get church resources and church help because even when I was deconstructing, I did it. I thought I did it the right way. I did it through the church. And you're not to look at other sites. And it was the topic essays that I struggled the most with. And then I started going to other resources because I was like, okay, this is all just like cover up of different language to justify every question that everyone has. Like the gospel topic essays are even like, That doesn't help me. And so I have never found more healing and freedom and happiness since being able to leave the LDS Church and start healing on my own terms. 

 Brian [00:54:12] Now I'm getting chills. 

 Kauri [00:54:15] Just seeing like I am beautiful and I'm brown and I am where it doesn't matter what anyone says done. It does not matter about your sex life and no matter how much your modesty is pounded in your head like. Nobody gets take advantage of you for. That. And I have struggled. So. Much with immodesty since I came home because I was told. That while some were probably brothers who couldn't take it, image of her. So, I think just deconstructing or trying to figure out my worse. I have an older sister and she's autistic. She's really high functioning. But she is. She's like the brain. She's almost 40 inches the brain of a 13 year old now. And she's very known to pick up on what other people around her are setting. And the other day, I went over to my mom's house to go help out. Now I was wearing a T-shirt and shorts and my shorts weren't even that short, but my sister had heard something and so she just started calling me a slut. I said, You're just like such a slut. And I. Knew immediately that she had heard that, like, I know I'm it's so bad because I. Love my mom. I don't know why she's the way she. Is, but I knew she heard that from my mom. And I just think it's really. Hard if you're your own parents. But yeah, like, I'm sure, I'm sure everyone's felt this, you know, especially if you leave and Deacon sure it's hard. Go to someone you thought would help, you know, have them accept you or blame it on you. And then I think we all just, like, want a safe place. Yeah. 

 Brian [00:55:49] And someone to have your back. 

 Kauri [00:55:50] Yes. Or like, you see, I guess. Yeah. Like a lot of my faith. I remember meeting with my bishop and I told him exactly what happened and I still cannot. Take the sacrament, But it wasn't my fault. I mean, I. I think they need to. I don't know. Just eventually all of that builds up and you are just. So, confused on what. God actually wants for you. You get so confused in, you know, it's hard. If you hear your mom talk about you that way, but, you know, you're just trying your best. And that's about it. Some family members recently and all of you that I was. Just like. Why don't you just talk to me like they can sit there and bear their testimonies. All the gospel honest, only one and to church and all these quotes that are very harmful from apostles and leaders. And I say one thing about why can't we just love and support the LGBT community? And it's like, that was it for them. And I think where I'm at right now is I'm at this place of realizing that my expectations of what I thought my family was like or I thought our relations ships were. I realized the way our relationships were very damaging to my self-esteem. And now I'm having to take a step back and be like, my family was as perfect as I thought they were, and they have their own problems and their own insecurities. So, now it's about me now taking that step to realize, like, I love them, I know they're there, but I also know until I can have more respect and boundaries that our relationships will probably be surface level, even though I think that as a family we've been through a lot of traumatic things. So, I thought they'd be more understanding. But the last couple of years due times or how I felt people in our family needed love the most because it wasn't a life that they understood or the way of life they wanted. Can't like they can't love us the way I thought that I guess my expectations. 

 Brian [00:57:47] Yeah, I think it is. It's so confusing because we confuse love with goodness and we do love them. They're not good for us. And the interaction or the relationship or the boundaries or the thoughts that they pass on or talk about. It's not it's not good for us and we still love them. But I don't want to be a part of that anymore. I choose to not be a part of that. Yeah. I choose to dress how I want to dress and I choose to not be around people that are down on me for dressing the way I want to dress. And that's hard. So, hard.

 Kauri [00:58:21] Yeah, because it's crazy that just even what you now what you're wearing like that is, that's all they can think about. And it's like, why can't even since leaving something I know my mom has mentioned to my sisters because I have another sister who's doing so well that she's awesome and she's so accepting of me and just like, I love you and I can tell you're happy, like, you know? And then I have one who's really close with my mom, and it's just hard because they're like top of our, like the head kind of, of our family. And so it's just I just feel so bad for anyone who's not accepted by people who share the this. And maybe that is my role and expectations, but just nothing hurt me more than when my sister. Told me she couldn't even tell stories. About my childhood of abuse. Because she couldn't feel the spirit. And it's like, but if you want to know why I'm actually leaving or. Why I do or say the things I do that are so offensive to her, then like you, just it. And I have to accept that I can't control the way that will react to me leaving and I just need to focus on doing what's best for me. But I think I'm always holding on because I love my family so much and we've been through so much that to me I just couldn't believe that is what changed everything for them. And I think probably I take it too personal. I'm like, We've been through so much the family. Like, why would this be the thing that kept them from really like being able to love and accept me and my mom? I told my sister the other day like, Oh, it's so weird. Like Kauri still Kauri like, she's so funny. Like, she loves. I want, like, she's still carrying them. Like, that's what I was trying to explain. I'm still me. I just don't believe in the same things. But I want a relationship and something I heard makes said. It's like I get a little worried. It's based off things that the church say that could change my relationships that she's worked so hard for. And I think I'm sure at that point it's like I just I don't know why they can't love people. Who. Live life to them. They love us, but they don't.  love us. I mean, at a horrible situation with my brother who is now in prison and he's at his age. Amazing kid. Amazing kid. And because they don't understand, like no one. Was in jail when he was like 20 minutes away. I was coming from Logan, Utah, twice a week, driving down to visit my brother so he wouldn't feel alone. And they I've noticed that my family takes everything so personal in the sense of in a selfish way about making it about themselves. And so for my siblings, you're just like, even if Jacob didn't do what he was accused of, he should never have been dating that girl. So, because he was dating that crazy girl, I'm not going to go visit him in jail because he should have made better decisions. And I like to use scare. He did not do he experienced police brutality people are being racist against to my release almost two years in the Salt Lake come to jail and my brother couldn't even go visit him because it was too hard on him. It was like in times of need we had to have a choice like. At least for. Me, in the way I view life. It's like people need our love. They don't need us to sit there and tell them they were wrong. Yeah, right. It's just a given that like the journey with my brother going and his passing became so vocal because they put it on the news. So, we had so many people from Davis County calling my mom, calling me and being like, All this happened to your brother. The most hurtful thing was so many people I knew who loved my brother and would suck up to him when he was in high school. We're reposting his article and saying, Oh, I always knew he'd end up there. And then like the comments under it, like, Oh, get that kid out of the US. Like, Oh, I bet he's from a budget stars like just random people. And it was like, geez, he's adopted into a white family how this he served their mission. He's a good kid. He got mixed up in a crazy girl. And with the way our system is and him being a big brown Polynesian, despite the evidence, they just denied it. And my family, instead of getting a lawyer and this is also a problem, I feel like I'm learning so much about the criminal justice system simply by doing it all by myself to them. When that happened to my brother as well, this is God's plan to get my brother to come back to church because he wasn't active in the church. He had left and he was dating a crazy girl who when he broke up with the crazy girl, the girl said he kidnaped her. Which is. So, crazy. But. But when that happened, brother, she got a lawyer. My brother and my brother never talked to the cops. He would never be where he was. But because he was innocent, he thought, okay, I'll just tell the cops everything. And then the cops left it out and left out any of his evidence or like, Nope, this is what you actually said. And instead of getting my brother a lawyer, my family's like, Well, this is part of God's plan. Like, this is going to be his new two year mission that's going to help him. But they don't understand the way the system works. And that's what I mean by the different sense of like worlds. My family is so naive because everything is part of God's plan. Like, it's crazy. He was suffering in jail and they're all thinking they're punishing him. Like, well, he never showed up to church, you know? And it's like, no, he needs a lawyer and we need to get him out now. And now he's stuck in Gunnison Prison and so many bad things happen. To him there. And instead of going to go visit him, they would go to the temple, put his name in the temple. That is not getting our brother out of jail. And it was very lonely. During that time is when I. Started going through my deconstruction. And just hearing the things you're like, Well, I've just been praying. Or my Patriarchal blessing like says, it's all going to work out for our family. It's like we have to do action in order to get him out. This is not part of God's plan. The system does not care about religion. Like they don't care that you guys all think that. Well, we've always ever said it like it's all going to work out. And I think that's where it really. 2020 was such an eye opener to me. I was like, not advocating for anyone here. No one cares about people of color and the racism that they continue to face. No one cares about the LGBTQ community because the church didn't tell you that you're allowed to advocate for it. And so to me. 

 Brian [01:04:32] They have told you're not allowed to advocate for. 

 Kauri [01:04:34] It. Right And that's what they like to focus on. Just the way it might have handled my brother's situation. I am still very Bitter about it because He's officially now been locked up for three years. And I recently talked to my brother and I was mentioning how some people in the family, we're going to do this request to come and see him because he can have three visits a month. And he was like car like I don't even know. He's like, why do they want to now It's like where the two years I lived like 20 minutes away from them. And it's just Like things like when my brother was 15 He worked This ranching. That's for my uncle. He's Polynesian One. These two boys that kind of they Were really frustrated because my brother was very talented. Like, you can just, like, give him a horse and he's just like, how does he know how to do everything, you know? Oh, he's been tortured. Like he played varsity as a sophomore. He's just so he's very talented. And these two kids that summer had they were pulling him But being brown and one night they woke him up, put the gun to his boot and they told him to get out of bed and do the hooker for them. But they were going to shoot him. So, my brother go to bed. You said they loaded the gun, so he started to look for them and then they let him go to bed and he said he'd never been so scared. The next day you ain't told my uncle, Mace said. He's just trying to get out of work. You didn't believe him. So, then come the end of summer, my brother's having a lot of problems. Was starting high school and my brother had gone to get his wisdom teeth removed And Dana said they should tell the sun. My mom's in the waiting room to use loud screams. So, she had tactic. She knew it was my brother. And they had like four nurses And two doctors holding. But he was coming up to end the season. If you're just like, I don't see you crying, like, please, please love me, like come back to you like a big Polynesian boy by the end of the summer. We had found out that thing to do it and so the kids and coming Up with their parents although to our home we finally came to apologize like my brother did press charges or Anything. But it's like every time we have God to trust in the door about something, they do not believe us. And sometimes so like my older siblings will say, like, I don't understand why some of you kids went wrong and Zero the couple, you know, like they're all just like The normal, perfect thing. And it's like none of you, though Were like, they got to at least be raised all the way up until their teens with a stable family. And I'm like, were all at the vital ages of six, eight and four where our whole life was being turned around and then were constantly being picked removed. But also growing up, like my mom never acknowledged that were different in the sense of being adopted And she wouldn't even Tell us about our own adoption stories until were way older because she was so scared that we would not think of her as our mom. But all along, without this education, about educating us about being different or what people might do or say, Oh, we're like being thrown into this World Where especially in Utah, if you're or people are, is like, Oh, that's so weird. Polynesians would give up their children because they're all about family. And so it's almost like being proud of our head though Like, we don't fit in here, we're not accepted. We're struggling with having a stable father in our lives. And so I Think that is where me and some of my siblings in particular probably too is like I feel like I overcompensated so much in high school to make up for the fact That I never spoke Because even in the culture here, especially in Utah, is like black boys are very like wanted and attractive, but like any person of color as a Girl, like it's not And so I think it even messed with my self-worth is not having an example of an adult who is proud, who is like loved just because my only examples where my mom and my sisters and so that's I always try to shave my curly hair. I try to be really skinny because like no one taught me that Polynesians like, yeah, like are bone. Like, it doesn't matter how skinny I will be, I'll always be bigger than everyone else around me. But I always thought that as fat. So, it's like grow up with an eating disorder And those are just things where I would also encourage, I don't know if anyone's listening, but it's like if you're going to adopt a different race You need to educate Yourself on how to take care of them or how to integrate Them into particularly Especially White communities. And then you Grow up these white like, you know, theologies of like the church. And I'm still wondering where my place is because I was told I was a lame and I if I'm not like, what Native America I don't even shiver all the time as they were or if I was being good that day, that Sunday I was. And if I then Like just The the way that people also I think growing up tried to teach me about where Polynesians were supposed to be the plan. But then also it's like the lack of knowledge because I also grew up in a white home with white privilege. So, it's like I never fit in with the Polynesians, but I never felt it being white, like, so I was like vice president and I was hunger queen and volleyball basketball captain. I feel like I overcompensated. So, I wanted to be the best, so could fit in with everyone else. And so I think just through a lot of different things, I think with me and maybe some of my other Adopted Siblings was so hard. Root I'll just speak for myself, just trying to understand God's plan Because it's so confusing Where I'm supposed to fit in and how these trials that were happening were like, like you said, like, I just don't believe that God would not that for me No. And I think that's the hardest thing is If you don't have necessarily a safe environment and a purpose. I don't want to help my family because I know that we're just doing the best they could. But like I didn't even know I was adopted till I was in the second grade The kid pushed me down at school, called me Brownie And I didn't understand. I thought everyone had different colors of skin. And so I think I learned really early on being brown was not like a positive thing then. So, unless it's for sports or unless I can be full Polynesian, then I wasn't good enough And then it's also hard when you feel that way, you know, to not be able to go home though And then yeah, like someone to look up to and be like No, like, being brown is cool I struggled a lot to discuss Dating in Utah, especially being A woman of color is really difficult. It felt like kids in high school always wanted to talk to me and like, you know, like have a crush on me when it was down low. But never like, never, actually. And they like, in front of other people, it was like, they'll text you and stuff, but like then they won't like acknowledge you as like and it was always like, well, I once heard like, well, people just think you're actually a lot Polynesian like so. But then it confused because I'm like, So, what does. Like, is that a negative thing? Like being to Polynesian? And so it's like, I can't be too Samoan, but I don't fit in with the Samoans because I'm not Samoan like I'm white and then I don't fit in with the white People because they all Think I'm brown and like a thug. And so like even that it's I just wish more People would educate themselves in Utah that my average brown person is also a thug Who was never so offended. The one I saw that people are reposting my brother, you know, like his news article And I'm like, you actually think like you were one of his really good friends and you reposted like my broke. Just love me Like the way that I've heard judges talk, the way that I'm seeing like also liberal trauma. It's a hard world, but it's even harder if you grow up and be like this. And nobody's actually educating you about the real world or about or like you're not really allowed to talk about race or anything different or uncomfortable. So, you think it's just now it's like I'm trying really hard to be confident in the path that I finally feel good for me. And it's just such a bummer that two really important people in my life that's it's not good. Who I am is still not being accepted by people. And I think that's where I'm just on this path where I'm just learning like I'm fighting you to take care of myself. It's okay for me To believe That God is more loving than the one I was raised. I think that's. 

 Brian [01:13:25] And I know you've mentioned this a couple of times, you don't want to place the blame on others and everyone because you love them and they're important in your life. But I also think you need to realize they do have responsibility for not being there when you needed them, and you can't excuse them and say that it was okay because it wasn't. You can love them and forgive them, but you can't totally excuse them. I feel bad for the people that are missing out on Kauri that don't see you and they don't love you for who you are in every aspect of it because they're missing out. 

 Kauri [01:13:53] I feel like this was so therapeutic because you don't really like know me, but thank you because I feel so much. Love is something I hope more people Can see is sometimes it's okay that like the people we think are supposed to, like, can't Or they don't. Yes. 

 Brian [01:14:12] Yeah. And they have issues and concerns and I get that too. These also still have the responsibility of understanding and of being there, having your back, you and your brothers back. 

 Kauri [01:14:23] My brother. It was just so hard to do. Still so like 20 minutes away from their brother, Jill. I'm coming from Logan twice a week. So, your brother has. It's too hard to sleep. That's when people need you the most. Thank you. He looks like this big Polynesian, but he's scared. I mean, the things that have happened to him in his life are so sad. I just. I just love names. Sometimes it's hard just to hear Like, some of his Family members talk about hooks. Like, he didn't just get there, though, all his life, the things he's been through in the inconsistently from fathers and the guilt we're raised with that whole well. And I think a lot Of my brother and I is trauma has to do With race and something so different something that like my mom can't talk about. She gets so offended. But it's like, mom, for once we don't. What is this not about you like your kids, just without love. Really? No, she can't offer that. It's just hard. It's hard to do that. So, there's not other people of color who can say that what you're doing is good. I just hurts, like, racially motivated things. My brother's case we killed. I just remember my mom's husband was like, cops would never do that. Like, they would never. And it's like, in this moment, like, people just need to believed and loved. Yeah, just coming here, it's like, why is it so hard to believe us when we come with you? And so I hope it's We've been married for five years and we love kids. And I feel like a huge part of that is I'm still showing my own inner child and I don't want to bring a kid into this world when I don't Know if I even know myself And it's like no one's helping all the kids who are already here Still shouldn't be a reason, but sometimes I just feel so overwhelmed and inadequate Like I don't know what I'm doing and no one is really there to help. It just feels very more confusing It's like if you were to tell someone to write down, do that, and they're like, Well, it's because you left the church Yeah, yeah, that's tricky. And it's not because you left the church. It's because they're not there for you Yeah, I am so sick of hearing. Well, I go to the temple for you Going to the temple and putting my name is not. 

 Brian [01:16:55] You know what? Don't bother you. It hasn't solved anything up until now. So, just stop. You're wasting your time. 

 Kauri [01:17:00] I'd like it Spent three years, I think. Terrible developers. It's like I had to go to my father in law to try to get a lawyer for him. Because no one with you would donate a dollar. Because just part of God's plan, you may think God wants more for us today. I still do love them. I love them so much I, my nieces and nephews are everything to me. I love you. It's just really Difficult To now see everything as an adult It's to be like, Why didn't you teach me? They know, like I said a million times, like, I understand why they are the way they are. I mean, it's like if I grew up the same way and I'm able to educate myself and change for a mile of Dogs, why can't you And I think it's just where I'm just really learning to accept how my relationships actually are. What I always thought. Yeah, and that's hard. 

 Brian [01:17:57] Instead of the want to use this word from have to think of something else now I'll just use the word instead of the fairy tale that they've been told about. This is God's. 

 Kauri [01:18:04] Plan Doesn't that doesn't solve reality Oh, one of the things my brother in law is very black and white. Everything's very I we use it in the same small town his whole life. Besides to your mission. He doesn't. And one of the things is so apparently my letter like really upset my sister was couldn't sleep But she didn't even finish reading it So, I'm like she got to like the first paragraph. So, he reached out to me. It was like Like if you just if you and your other sibling statistics are you if you got like it's so hard because it's like you can't even you can't say anything or have any sort of support It being all about what choices were you making that led up to them? Like, I mean, there's like my brother was excommunicated from this mission and he had talked to our Stake President, our Stake President knew the Coach Snow College where my brother was going to go play and told the coach they're both on the ice, told the coach from Snow College, my brother got excommunicated. My brother, instead of learning basketball, was like having worthiness interviews with his coach and then he was it like being able to play? Like as soon as his coach had found out he was excommunicated, his coach looked at him different. And so it's just like your religion, like you as a Stake President think it's okay for you to go tell people to someone else is excommunicated. So, then later this bishop, the Stake President did not like my brothers or my other brother went in for like a council meeting. He's like, I told your other brother, if any of you guys were back in here, you'd be in trouble. Then I excommunicated him. It's like, is he actually getting a fair chance? Because that's what you said to him right before you excommunicated him. And for me, it's like I think We, my brothers needed the church most as well. It's like you guys just kicked them out. These are young youth. And then to My family You're horrible. You're no one can look up to you No one looks up to you until you're back on the path. And so then they get further away. Like, as in they're like distance because they don't want to come around when they're not accepted because they're. 

 Brian [01:20:04] Push their. 

 Kauri [01:20:05] Yes. And then they're asking, they're like, Oh, like, how did you start dating a girl like that? It's like, Oh, I don't know. Maybe by your gossiping, your actions, your words, nobody inviting him to anything, making him feel isolated out from. It's just sometimes it's so crazy when they ask these questions and I'm like, I came and I told you guys what happened, and my brother in law told me, Did you actually get raped or did you just want to have sex and not admit it? 

 Brian [01:20:30] Oh, my. 

 Kauri [01:20:31] I was 19 when he told you that. And I just start bawling. And when I tried to bring it up with them the other day, how one time he said this harmful racist comment. One time my niece, when she was in eighth grade, she started dating a lot of brown boys and my brother in law goes to his wife. Should we be concerned that she really likes brown boys around his brown brother in laws that impacted them Because then they didn't think they were good enough, but they were thinking, oh, well, our own brother in law doesn't want a brown boy for his And so now when I bring it up, I'm like, well, just some things that have bothered me over the years that have affected my self-worth. And then he's like, You actually think I meant that? I mean, like she said it. And that impacted a young 15 year old girl at the time, thinking automatically, my skin's good enough and it's just crazy now. It's like, you know, trying to bring up things and it's really hard. Is your family or anyone you're trying to talk to doesn't want to take responsibility and then they gaslight you. Yeah. So, this feels like. You just realize we'll have a better relationship at a distance? 

 Brian [01:21:31] Not at all. 

 Kauri [01:21:32] I mean And then they're going to tell me that it's because I left the church That's okay. 

 Brian [01:21:36] Whatever. Where do you get your support now? 

 Kauri [01:21:39] My husband He's the best I love him. And I think I feel so bad about that because the first three years of our marriage, I was horrible to him because they gave me the temple. Everything wrong. When we had miscarriages, I was like, cause we're not at the temple or. But I was like, You're not paying enough. You're the one who my mom always taught me. It's the men. So, I was always upset. Why are you reading your scriptures? And I come in at night? Why aren't you doing that? I was psycho, and I won't take responsibility for that now. We didn't get married in their temple. I did not want to put any pictures. I still don't really talk about my wedding because I'm so ashamed It's so sad. I look Back at our marriage and I Made it so much harder because I didn't think she was good enough for me. So, it's like everything That I was taught and the way people treat me, I treated the person that I love the most. 

 Brian [01:22:28] Because you've learned that very well. 

 Kauri [01:22:30] It's just so sad. It's just crazy. When I look back now because I was really bad, like, I'm really lucky he stayed because I pushed him away a ton for not being perfect in church things. He was my best friend. Besides that, there are so many times I asked for a divorce Because he was so ashamed of that though. But I'm so lucky not to be like he just took a lot of abuse. Let's just say That. And I see a lot of where my negatives, like where that came from. Like I understand it now, but it's like I made him not feel good that I made him not feel worthy enough. He told me early on he did not believe it. Like I was like crap. Because like one of the number one things in Young Woman when you're writing, how do you want your husband? 

 Brian [01:23:16] Absolutely. 

 Kauri [01:23:17] Oh, where the priesthood holder is the number one. Yeah. Not your best friend. Not someone who's there for you when you're crying now. So, it is the issue. The hard things are your crazy family that. 

 Brian [01:23:24] Respects you or stand up for you. 

 Kauri [01:23:26] Or respect and love, which is, oh my God, this expression, my abuse. He is so respectful and it's crazy because he is my best friend and I almost see that away because I thought he was over to the priesthood holder and he couldn't be sold forever. That was my biggest hang up. I was like, I knew. I was like, Oh, is this someone I had mentioned to me? My miscarriages, like my bad fertility is probably because we're not active in the church. So, I started to try to get more active again. I had a really bad miscarriage and then it's like the same thing. Instead of just being like, Oh, this is like something hard that just happened. I took it all like, God's not letting us have a kid stillbirth. So, that's what I was being told. That's how I was raised, that's what I thought. And she would say things like, Okay, well, if we had a baby, we wanted to bless it and I give the baby a blessing. Why would God just be like, Oh, is bossy, doesn't count because you don't have the priesthood? And I was like, Oh, I don't know. He started asking me questions where he was like, Why would I do this? And I was like, Wait, why God keep asking if we raise great children, why don't we get to heaven? Why would he be like, You guys didn't go to the. 

 Brian [01:24:29] Temple, check the box? 

 Kauri [01:24:30] Exactly And so 2020, he started reading you to see this letter, right I was like, oh, my gosh. Like this is the end of the world But I was in turmoil. Like, I remember like that world tour turmoil. My I was just like, this is nothing. This is nothing. 

 Brian [01:24:47] What I saw was that like, the first trigger for you was at the first thing that you started. 

 Kauri [01:24:52] Yeah, it was so yeah. Just like in our marriage. So, that making 2017 and as every year it went by, I was like, well, we need to get settled. Yeah. So, and so every time each got worse and finally 2020, he just can't I don't believe like I don't. And this is why. 

 Brian [01:25:08] Was he raised in the church. 

 Kauri [01:25:09] Yeah. Yeah. And his, his dad was in the Bishopric and his, his mom is very, very and so and it's also funny because like, his mom didn't necessarily really like me, but I was like, it's so weird cause I'm like, okay, Molly Mormon like Normally, mom, you know what I mean? Like And so it's just funny looking back now, I tried so hard to impress his mom with me being spiritual. Yeah, and it's like, I'm not. 

 Brian [01:25:35] You're my husband. You have to reflect their own values back on them. 

 Kauri [01:25:38] To be accepted, right Yeah. And it's like. But I'm not even, like, worrying about what my husband thinks or it's the same thing. I'm trying to impress people instead of him. And now, like, but. 

 Brian [01:25:49] You break in those cycles, there's so many of them. 

 Kauri [01:25:52] I am breaking the cycle and even that is crazy because I'm like, Wow, yet who would have thought that I would be here Now? But it's kind of what I said before. It's so I've never felt like feeling this way, and I love it, even though in a way I like very sense in a way with my family, but in certain relationships I'm so really close with. So, some other siblings. 

 Brian [01:26:13] What's the ones that want to be close? 

 Kauri [01:26:15] Yeah, like it's sad that it's like the ones that I'm close with are the ones that were willing to listen. That was all. Just listen and. 

 Brian [01:26:23] Believe and just write. 

 Kauri [01:26:25] Well. So, once. Mom had found out about being abused by a religious leader. She is. She knew about this. Who is it? I had only told my sister who the name was, besides my husband. And as soon as my sister let us sex mom can really get to her. 

 Brian [01:26:41] Can be persuasive. 

 Kauri [01:26:42] Yes. And my mom was like because she found out who it was. She. Oh, yeah, I could see that. Okay. Wow. Because you knew. It's just it's difficult to be raised in that mindset. And that's also where I hope I just hope more people actually. It's like what you're doing. Like, you genuinely love the people, the kids you coach. You're taking them out to lunch. You generally love your kids because they hurt a little bit like, yeah, your kids have went away and you still chose to let them. Your wife said you didn't leave and you still loved her. And so I just love, like, why does it matter what people believe in? Or like, why can't we just love everyone? Yeah. And I just feels, especially in the LDS religion, that is, unless it is a certain way, then your love is conditional. 

 Brian [01:27:27] I've been having this thought lately that the more tightly you grip onto your beliefs, the higher the likelihood that they're wrong. If you can't hang on to it loosely and think about it and consider other options, then you probably already know that this isn't right. So, you grip it tighter because it's what you know. And you mentioned earlier, once you let that go. You mentioned the freedom and the happiness that came into your life. It's like, oh, that wasn't even a thing. Why was I gripping onto that so tightly? It's not even a thing. Yes. And the thing that's actually out here is wonderful and it's beautiful. 

 Kauri [01:27:58] It's wonderful. You are. It's like I feel like if anything, I am more intentional now. I am more genuine in my relationships. I'm not. It's like I've been through a near-death experience, but I am trying to live my life fully and doing things intentionally because if I die, like I'm not sitting here thinking, did I make all my checklists? I go to heaven. I'm just thinking, I think God will love me. I think it's all going to work out, but I'm still going to live the best life I can on earth instead of just trying to make it through to be accepted for this next one. 

 Brian [01:28:28] I actually feel like I'm a much better Christian side of the church than I was in. 

 Kauri [01:28:33] It totally filled up. And it's crazy because the way that maybe we might start showing our love for others now is so against, you know. 

 Brian [01:28:42] That's against all the wrong people. It's against the leper. It's against that person that was beaten up and left on the side of the road site. It's going visiting the prisons. It's the sick and the homeless. It's the oh, wait, no, that's what's supposed to be all along. But and instead we write their name down on the temple and. 

 Kauri [01:28:56] And that is. That's it. It's sad. Like, yeah, it's sad. 

 Brian [01:29:01] It's frustrating. It's so. And how are you with anger? 

 Kauri [01:29:04] Like, what. 

 Brian [01:29:05] Part of anger played in this process? Your husband just looked up. We're like. 

 Kauri [01:29:11] I, I was like, I Probably am Like to some people probably think I'm still in that angry phase because I've noticed that a lot of my anger is more on social media. Okay. In the sense of like speaking out against everything we taught not to. My anger was definitely, I guess is probably I just feel like I'm still in it. Yeah, I know. I could do better. I definitely could have done better once I had a fall out like a month ago with my family. And sometimes it's sad because it's like it's just frustrating so that people, it's like they can't even understand where your anger is coming from. So, then I feel always shut down. Like I can't actually be angry, so I feel like I'm still in it because my anger is still in like this box and I'm releasing it slowly because I care too much about other people. 

 Brian [01:30:04] And so is anger a bad thing? 

 Kauri [01:30:06] No, I think I'm too scared right now. Too too scared, I think, to at least let other people know my anger, because when I brought it up, it's not welcome. So, I feel like I'm just learning how to be angry without, I guess, letting other people feel. I am still very angry, but it's kind of like most my emotions. I'm learning that it's okay to hurt people's feelings and it's okay to experience them because even with my car accident, I never after I left high school, I never came and visited him again. It's like I'm taught that my feelings could be offensive to other people. So, I don't really I'm at this point in my life where I'm learning how to let my emotions and also not care. So, I think to where I'm at right now. Okay, I guess I'm learning how to regulate my emotions and not being so apologetic to other people or caring too much. But it's really hard. 

 Brian [01:30:59] Yeah. And just recognize them. They're all real and they're all okay. 

 Kauri [01:31:03] I think that to his life is like they're real. I was always taught growing up like it's all part of God's plan, so, okay, you're going to cry about it. It's like, what do you. So, yeah, I think I'm just letting myself feel them now. But if there's anything I obviously I'm very upset about. I wish. I wish I just I wish I would've known better to call out my abuse. 

 Brian [01:31:25] Part of that cycle is. They know how and when and who to take advantage of, and they know how and when and who it's safe. And the victim has not been prepared for this. And there is no way the victim can know what to do or how to handle it or how to internalize it. And that to me, is the biggest, biggest problem of the whole thing is it's an abuse that just keeps on going. It's not just a one time act. You feel betrayed by everybody and no one is there for you. The people that are supposed to be there for you aren't there for you, and you don't. You're even afraid to work out. And that fear just keeps going. And worst of all is the idea of it's probably your fault and it's probably something you did. And that is very shameful feeling, none of which is true. 

 Kauri [01:32:06] I just remember that someone had told me, You have a big Polynesian body, why didn't you fight him off? And I was like, I just froze. Like, it's like that answer wasn't good enough for them. And so I think it did make me realize, yeah, like, this is my fault. Like, this is something I need to work through. And that is something I really hope that as whole and society we change is why don't victims come forward? Because they're not believed. These are. 

 Brian [01:32:31] Not believed. 

 Kauri [01:32:32] You tell them to go do it. A trusted adult and the trusted adults make you feel more disgusting about. 

 Brian [01:32:39] Your victimized again. 

 Kauri [01:32:40] Yes. 

 Brian [01:32:41] And victimized publicly. 

 Kauri [01:32:42] Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. I know I have to work through a lot through the abuse. So, it was almost like I never really got to heal from my car accident because in the trauma, do that because another confusing, crazy thing happened. And that's also where I think for the longest time I struggled with separating religion with abuse. I didn't know how to like connect the way I thought. God viewed me with knowing that was someone's place that has nothing to do with it but kind of just God's plan. Yeah. And then with the responses from trusted adults, it was like, Oh, I'm very confused then. Like, I'm disgusting and gross. And I won't I wouldn't be good enough for the missionary I was writing to, like if I had told him. And it just made me view so like the whole chewed gum thing, the lesson. So, I am chew gum. This is like a so like maybe that people in my life are shaming me because that is what like in their eyes, that's what God would've done if he knew. 

 Brian [01:33:48] Yeah. And I think they also have to justify why it happened to you, but it couldn't happen to them. So, if they can make sense of why it happened to you, then they can feel a little safer. Not that there's this creeper that is in a position of authority that this could happen to anyone. 

 Kauri [01:34:03] Yeah. Know, just one of my sisters had said that, like, well, what it did to you. And then another voice came in. She was really immodest My feeling we don't wear bikinis, you know, like my friend. So, it's like that. Then that message, things said down to my nieces and then I have a little brother who just graduated high school is going on a mission and My mom is very intimate modesty. Obviously, she was upset about some girl. He was taking out shoes and modest. I mean, this is like a month ago or a couple months ago we use back in school. But she told him that if his date was more modest, that then she could be sexually assaulted like your sister. So, my mom is still associating in modesty Like she still thinks it's my fault. And I think that hurt most because it is something I'm trying so hard to deconstruct from shame and guilt, having my virginity taken without my consent. And it is so hard when you have lessons and you have a religion teaching young women or young just youth that is there. It is my modesty, but makes the look some to hurt not so harmful message. 

 Brian [01:35:22] Why is it never about the gum chewer? 

 Kauri [01:35:24] Why you? 

 Brian [01:35:25] I've never heard that analogy. 

 Kauri [01:35:27] Oh, such a good point. 

 Brian [01:35:29] How are you blaming? I don't. I don't understand that. 

 Kauri [01:35:33] So, I think that got something like you just told that to our little brother. So, you sometimes it is very hard to try to show real life problems because it's just always going to be part of God's plan. So, I think I don't know. It's I just want to, like, help and save people. And then when your own family is not accepting or loving or wanting to hear you, I think it's so discouraging. Part of your healing. Like how do you feel when so much of your. But I think that's also I have to realize like I probably I won't ever get apologies for things that were done to me, but I'm trying to find a way to help other people and advocate for them so that they don't feel alone. Yeah, because it's crazy though that I've had multiple people cited my DMS who are my brothers friends to not to me that they were gay and their parents are telling. Then to fast and pray and to still go on a mission and they don't want a mission and are going to pay for their college. And we are wondering why Utah has the highest suicide rate for LGBTQ. 

 Kauri [01:36:38] Yes, yes We wonder why. Like and I'm just this is why these harmful things that we are putting that the prophet, like follow the prophet. And everything he says out of his mouth is the end. You know what I mean? Like it's word. And we are creating this environment, these poor youth. Yeah. They still having you better option to take their life cause they are not wanting to hurt their family salvation. Right. They're confused. 

 Brian [01:37:03] They're good people. They love them. 

 Kauri [01:37:04] Yes. And then you have people like some people in my family who are like, that's selfish. They kill themselves. That's their fault. They don't understand God's plan. And how is anyone supposed to heal? How is anyone's supposed to grow? How's anyone's? If that is what we are being heard of by these leaders, is will you be stronger than them or not? I mean, like. 

 Brian [01:37:23] And you can interpret God's plan as however you want and use it for any excuse or any rationalization at any time. That's convenient. 

 Kauri [01:37:30] And just to even say that someone being gay is one of choice and then also a sin that they have to work through this life. That's their trial. That is how I was raised. And that is disgusting Pretty It's like people deserve more than that. 

 Brian [01:37:45] So, have you ever thought of just packing up the U-Haul and just driving for a thousand miles and saying, we live here now? 

 Kauri [01:37:51] Yes, yes. As soon as here, I was like, as soon as because he's going to go. 

 Brian [01:37:56] That's actually a plan. 

 Kauri [01:37:57] Yes. No, just even talking. And what see what my husband is being because he was raised in more diversity, obviously, from Houston. She has even said like I don't know if, like, we would be able to raise our kids here. 

 Brian [01:38:12] Y'all are. 

 Kauri [01:38:12] Nuts. Yeah Like, yeah She was like Yeah, like, just between the religion and then the lack of diversity and lack of knowledge, he's like, Well, I don't want, like, our girls growing up thinking that they're immodesty, you know, or dislike because it is a cultural thing. Like, it's really hard for other people. Sorry. I'm sorry. 

 Brian [01:38:32] You need a break? 

 Kauri [01:38:33] We're okay. Sorry. No, you're getting out every year. Okay. 

 Brian [01:38:37] So, I have a couple of questions for you. Okay. You've used the word deconstruction a couple of times, and I'm kind of curious to know what that means to you. What is what is deconstruction? 

 Kauri [01:38:46] To me, it's a lot like processing person. And also with that processing taking down now what feels good seeing of everything I've learned or things I've been taught in my life. So, constructing for me, I'm deconstructing the way that I used to think I was viewed in the sense of my race. I'm learning to, instead of the way that I was taught people, viewed brown people versus how I was treated was very different because my environment didn't understand race. And I'm learning that there are some really messed up, like things that good people say. And it's okay for me to be like, Oh, like that's actually really hurtful or harmful. Or just now, the way that I view other people in general, I feel like I have a lot more empathy for others. I'm not as judgmental. And so I think it's just deconstructing everything I once used to know. And now, instead of seeing it through my limited like scope of the way I saw the world, I now have a bigger view for how things actually are than the way that I was told they were. 

 Brian [01:39:54] But didn't you think you had a good view of it beforehand? 

 Kauri [01:39:56] Well, my goodness, it was nice for that temporary those temporary moments where I thought Plan of Happiness actually did include everybody. Yeah. Or I just realized that could I actually not even love others? But it was really hard for me to love myself. I think that's the biggest thing I'm learning now from Deconstructing is it's okay to love myself. I feel like I've always been in this survival mode and because it was all just endured to the end, it's all part of this plan. And now I'm realizing, Whoa, some people are just bad people who do bad things. There's nothing to do with God. But now I have the tools and the knowledge to actually, like, kill what was broken. Whereas before I was given these tools and knowledge and it made it all more confusing, trying to justify bad things or accepting bad things and just being like, well, you just you'll learn in the next life. Why I'm not realizing like, no, that's not okay. I want to talk about it, I want to address it. And then now it's like I feel like I'm becoming more confident, setting boundaries with myself, even though it's still hard. 

 Brian [01:41:03] Yeah. You need to practice it as a new skill, right? 

 Kauri [01:41:05] Yes. Are you still. 

 Brian [01:41:07] Into the old habits just so, so easily. 

 Kauri [01:41:09] So, quick. 

 Brian [01:41:11] Especially around longer term relationships? You fall back into your old self, your old six year old self or whoever when you're around certain people. And it's like, that's not why I do that. I'm not that person anymore. 

 Kauri [01:41:22] Yes, I so I went. I was. I was very fortunate and I was and my father in law, I was able to provide for me to go to this long we psychological place in Arizona back in 2017. And there was the first time I ever confided in real help about my sexual abuse. And that's even something else I'm learning, and especially from examples of my life. Therapy was never something important or vital, and it was almost a sign of weakness because everything in the way I was taught is turned to our turn to our greatest scriptures. We do patriarchal blessing and then pray. And now I'm realizing, wait, medication, being able to talk to someone who also it's really good to talk to someone who's not just an LDS therapist. Yeah. Especially as you're going through trying to figure out person you are and the things you want to believe, what you think is right or wrong. Reevaluating my morals and my values and the kind of person I want to be and actually finding ways I can actually be that person instead of felt like, well, I can love everyone but just don't advocate so much. And I'm finding though the more I am myself and I am advocating for things I really think are important, and even though it's offending people, I'm finding people who need it, who love it. Like probably even with you, like you're listening to these people's stories and like everything you're learning and had, you never have maybe reached this point in your life where you're trying to discover what you believe in and what you think is right or wrong. Who knows? Like all these stories we could have missed from all these people. And I think by deconstructing in general, anything that we once used to thought was a for sure thing, I'm now learning it's also okay to not know everything. It's okay to want keep learning and to keep learning. 

 Brian [01:43:13] Yeah, I noticed when I'm in, I'm maybe I'm even projecting back on myself misremembering this. But it seems like I was trying so hard to make sure I knew everything and that it all made sense at all. And now I'm so much more comfortable with not knowing. 

 Kauri [01:43:27] Yes. Yeah. 

 Brian [01:43:28] I didn't think I'd ever be comfortable with like I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, but it just feels so much better. 

 Kauri [01:43:33] Do you also feel like you also now it's like you're it's easier for you to be wrong, like in the sense of, oh yeah, like, don't educate me, go ahead. Like, tell me what's right and then I'll post Twitter. Absolutely. It's like I'm able to yeah. Like, yep, that was wrong. Like, I feel like I'm able to call myself out better. Yeah. I'm not held to this unrealistic standard. I'm held to myself. And what? Yeah. Was wrong, like, you know what I mean? It's not like, oh, I need to come up with some answer that's going to prove them wrong or right, right. I was wrong. I'm going to learn something new and now I know better. Whereas I think that's a lot harder to do. Yeah. Especially if you call things out in religion that don't make sense. Right. And then like they don't know the answer. So, it's easier for them to sit in ignorance in what's comfortable. Yeah. And to be like, oh, maybe after my whole life, maybe I shouldn't. I got married when I was 18, had 20 kids. 

 Brian [01:44:24] And so you've mentioned God's plan several times. What do you feel God's plan is for Kauri now, or how do you think about that? 

 Kauri [01:44:33] So, the way I used to see things in the sense of God's plan, I always thought there was a right or wrong way, as I was being told there was as well was now. And I think about God's plan and even now I because even for some things with my husband, he's mentioned he might not even believe in like anything or something. And like if I who I used to be even just three years ago, it would have been like, well, you need to at least believe in something. Whereas now I feel like I'm at this point where it's like now like I think growing up were always taught like, you need to be on the same page with your spouse, on your beliefs, your beliefs are what's going to hold you in. And now I'm at this point where I'm like, You know what? If that's what my husband wants to believe in, we're still best friends. We saw respect for each other. We love each other. We still know the values we want to teach our children. It's okay raised. I think before being different was never okay for me. I'm learning that everyone is on their own path and if people inside the church it really does make them happy. I'm all for it. But my part, what I think in my part in God's plan is I don't ever want anyone to not feel accepted. I don't want people to not feel loved. I want people to feel like they have a safe place. I feel like I've really tried to become that for my nieces and nephews is sometimes like, Oh, you're always playing with them and stuff. And I'm like, it's like, when do we reach this age? Or we stop giving like younger children this attention and love that they deserve? And we start looking at them like, yeah, like they need to start meeting this and this. And I don't know, I just feel like my playing for God or the way I do now, my personal plan is I'm just trying to be the best person I can be. Now I realize the best thing I can do for others, and especially in like the best thing I can be for our marriage is to heal myself. I see so much of the reason why some of my family members are the way they are is because nobody addressed anything hard. Nobody took time to work. Through or process or deconstruct anything hard went through instead of why did our dads leave, you know? Or trying to understand them. We took it as God's plan. And then you're sitting there wondering, oh, you know, I mean, there's influences in my life that they're supposed to be an example and then they sit there and say, Well, God doesn't love me because not all my kids are active in the church or and I'm really I'm like, no, God loves me because he loves me regardless. And now it's this is my life. I'm going to start making choices and decisions that make me a better person and make me be able to love people more. And I could I just couldn't do that in the church. And I found so much growth and peace, even though it's so hard, like even with hard things that are coming up, it's like life can be so hard, so traumatic family problems, and yet it still feels so much different going to these hard things than it ever did when I was him. Yeah. And I feel like it's just that thing where it's like, I don't know, like everything's going to work out, but I. I feel it's all going to be okay because we're just going to try and do the best that we can. We're going to try to love everyone the best that we can and be honest with ourselves. And if that isn't enough for other people, then yeah, like that's our relationship. Like that will be on them. But me, I want to advocate so much for I want to educate people, especially in small communities or more, maybe more like I don't know how to say this. And I so like when there's more like white people, I want to show that racism is a huge deal. And although there are great steps we've made in our country, there are great steps we've made in the past. There's still so much to work on. And I think it's the same thing with people and the church, the foster care system, the LGBT community. Yeah, there have been a lot of great things that have happened, but there's still so much improvement and it's this should be the same thing for us. Like we should not just know all the answers. We should be wanting to learn more about different cultures, trying to understand, having hard conversations with people, getting to know people. Because the more you talk in this, like what you mentioned, we everyone kind of it's almost the same thing. We all want to be loved. We all have stories and we're all just trying to do the best we can. But if everything's on the surface level, where everything's part of God's plan, where we dismiss anything hard, whether that's racism, how to deal, how to accept and bring like in the LGBT community into like church ways, you know, when they're saying it's against God, it's like we need to create these more accepting and loving environments if we actually care about all of God's children, if we actually care about wanting to build a stronger and a more successful society, the youth, everyone who's coming after us, like all we need to do is just love. We to love. We need to accept people. And then it's also a kid have education that maybe makes us uncomfortable at first because we've never heard it, we don't understand it. But it's like that's so important to so many people who are sitting in silence, so many gay kids who can't come up to their parents. Yeah, it's just. And that's where I feel like for me, for God's plan, it's like I want to now. Before I always thought I had to be a mom. And now I'm so motivated to finish my education. And I went through it. I'm realizing there's no timeline. I'm six credits away from my bachelor's, and although I'm 26, I'm like, It's okay because I'm going to finish. I know I will, and then I want to. And even though I'm not as smart as some people would assume, I don't want to go to law school because I want to be able to help poor people get out of their situations in jail. I want to be able to teach kids that every culture is beautiful. I want there to be, you know, like youth aren't committing suicide because they think that they can't be their real selves. I guess I think my mission or not even my mission, I just want to love like I want people to know they're loved and I want more people to fill it. Not just say it, not just say, we're going on missions, we're going to go serve people. I want people to know they have a place in. I just oh, I just feel so bad for all the non-Mormons and just the toxic things they probably hear and feel because, you know, all the kids who aren't and I don't know it's funny because yeah, I used to think that I knew everything. I had the truth and I was perfect. And then you realize like, no, you don't. And it's also okay. Yeah. And it's okay that you don't know how to love someone, but it's like, you know, it's like I know people get very uncomfortable with the LGBTQ community, but it's that thing you said. So, just to also. 

 Brian [01:50:48] Get comfortable with it. 

 Kauri [01:50:49] Exactly. 

 Brian [01:50:50] Like why don't you get comfortable with it? 

 Kauri [01:50:52] Yeah, it's like you're not doing anything active. Your, your prayers, your I love everyone. I just can't. It's like, that's not love. 

 Brian [01:51:00] And why is comfort the number one thing on everybody's list? Why is discomfort such a bad thing? If it means you're learning and you're growing and you're helping someone. 

 Kauri [01:51:08] I think that someone is like, it's okay to be uncomfortable because it was never like that for me. Also, I just think too, I don't know. It's just so funny how our marriage like it was so good. It wasn't horrible, but it was so bad because the one thing that were. It was supposed to keep our marriage strong as soon as it was gone. 

 Brian [01:51:28] We actually kept it together. Yeah. Grew closer. Yeah. 

 Kauri [01:51:32] And we like community, like. Yeah. And then I, you know, like, you just learn so much of why people do certain things. And it's just that same thing. Like, well, just everyone has a story, and we all just need empathy and love, and we can assume and all of our religious views are correct. Yeah, if any. 

 Brian [01:51:51] Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I look back and I'm really I'm so sad and affected by all of the things that have happened to you in your past and all of the trials and the dark things that's more than anybody should have. I mean, that's a lot of things going on. And then I sit and listen to you about what you want to do moving forward and your face lights up and the people you want to help and the love and the education and the daring. And I'm like, what a powerful person this is. This is going to be this huge force going out there to help in all of these areas. And I hate to think that the thing that created that amazing force had to go through all those dark, terrible things. And then there's a part of me that says, I wonder if that's she's going to be as amazingly bright, as amazing as that was amazingly dark, and she's just going to be that huge light for so many people out there that desperately need it. And I don't know how I feel about those two, but I just look at that light and that your energy and your personality getting out there and making this difference. And I'm so pleased to have met you and to have you share your story with me. 

 Kauri [01:52:59] Thank you. I think the number one thing I kept thinking is thank you for validating I don't think I ever had that much appreciate that A lot like you're going to change lives just by listening to people and I hope more people can take that and just listen to say so. Thank you. 

 MUSIC

 Brian [01:53:16] Thank you. Thank you for listening to Strangers You Know, if you're enjoying our conversations, please share us with a friend. Continue the conversation by sharing and liking on Facebook and social media, or for exclusive content and detailed show notes. Visit our website at www.strangersyouknowpodcast.com where you can subscribe to our newsletter or make a donation to support the show. Thank you for your support.