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Is life, the universe and everything calling out to you. And are you too anxious or too busy working on your daily to do list to hear it? How would you react if you had spent the last 15 years of your life meticulously achieving one goal after another until you finally reached the pinnacle of success? Then you heard the message You need to quit. This is no longer for you. Would you trust the inner voice you'd been cultivating for years, or would your reptilian fear based brain talk you out of it? In today's conversation with Hardy, he explains how he left the toxic, unsustainable path of a highly successful Broadway career to force a pattern interrupt in his own life. We discuss how a recovering perfectionist practiced non-attachment through Vedic meditation and developed a change of consciousness through reflective curiosity, relinquishing the false concept of control by paying attention to his high level feeling. Hardy's story reflects the complete overhaul of his operating system. It is fascinating, inspiring and full of opportunities for self-reflection. I took a lot from this conversation myself, and I hope you appreciate it as much as I did.
SYK Episode 115: Hardy – “Pattern Interrupt”
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Hardy [00:00:04] And then the moment he said that, I literally just watched. Yes. And then I went, What? No. Oh, my God. Wait, wait, wait. You don't do that anymore. You're a meditation teacher and you do this now. And little did I know that was my old perfectionist control binary thinking of This is what you do, stick to this path. And but I knew at the same time, once again, when that fine level of feeling comes in, people ask me, how do I know if I'm following that intuition? How do I know if I'm moving in that flow state? And I said, from my experience, it's this new sequence where we have that fine level of feeling. Then we act without hesitation and then thought is tertiary versus maybe a hesitation. Then I overthink it. And the train's left the station and our thoughts are sort of comes last and goes, oh, oh, oh, it's like confirmation. Oh yeah, okay. I guess that makes sense. So I said yes to that.
Brian [00:01:00] Yeah. That is fascinating how that became your instinctive response.
Brian: Is life, the universe, and everything calling out to you? And are you too anxious or too busy working on your daily to-do list to hear it? How would you react if you had spent the last 15 years of your life meticulously achieving one goal after another until you finally reached the pinnacle of success? Then you heard the message You need to quit. This is no longer for you. Would you trust the inner voice you'd been cultivating for years, or would your reptilian fear-based brain talk you out of it? In today's conversation with Hardy, he explains how he left the toxic, unsustainable path of a highly successful Broadway career to force a pattern interrupt in his own life. We discuss how a recovering perfectionist practiced non-attachment through Vedic meditation and developed a change of consciousness through reflective curiosity, relinquishing the false concept of control by paying attention to his high-level feeling. Hardy's story reflects the complete overhaul of his operating system. It is fascinating, inspiring, and full of opportunities for self-reflection. I took a lot from this conversation myself, and I hope you appreciate it as much as I did.
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Brian [00:02:12] Thanks for joining me this morning. Excited to have you.
Hardy [00:02:17] Yeah, thanks for having me.
Brian [00:02:18] A lot of what I talk =about is deconstruction and changes in life. And it sounds like you've had a couple. Yeah, I'm kind of interested in knowing what prompted that and the human experience behind that and. Yeah. So that's kind of it.
Hardy [00:02:36] Right. Yeah. I mean, that was a big. Yeah. Sort of been the big theme for a big part of my life. Well, actually, not, it has become theme, but I mean, the first, really from the age of like 12 or 13, I consider myself a recovering perfectionist, control freak, from the age of like, yeah, around 12 or 13. I theater for me was my safe space. I didn't do it for, Oh, I want to be famous or anything like that. I was a very shy, introverted, closeted queer kid. And, I did, sports. And, I hunted as a kid, which is wild to think of now. And theater was another recreation that I did. And I, in my very early days, it was just the place where I could be. Whoever I wanted to be, I could transform into whoever I'd like and all this stuff from within and could just burst out. And I felt like it was safe enough for that to occur. And yeah, I loved it. It was safe, but like a safe place for me to be bold. That makes any sense. And yeah. And so I loved it. Well.
Brian [00:04:02] Let me stop you right there for a second. So you say being bold. Is that is that just your nature? Is that kind of who you are?
Hardy [00:04:11] I would say.
Brian [00:04:13] You said introverted earlier and now you say bold. So I'm kind of curious as to.
Hardy [00:04:18] Introverted, meaning, in order for me to be who I am, which absolutely is a leaper and bold and likes to help people. And for me, in order to have the energy to do that and the bandwidth, I need time to myself. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, when I talk about introversion or extroversion, it's usually simply what, what? What gets you, what fills your tank up. And so, yeah, I mean, as a kid, I was very shy, but that was because I didn't feel like I fit in and, and in school, whether it was dealing with, with bullying or, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, but no, I, the moment I, I remember going to a performing arts high school, switching over to this arts high school because I was doing a few shows around town just in community theater. And all of a sudden I met this really cool group of weirdos, these cool kids, and I was like, What are you all doing? Where did you go to school? And they're like, Oh, we're going to Noko, which was the New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts, very well known performing arts high school. And I was like, I want to go there. And the moment I got over there, I remember early on I said to one of my teachers who by that point a few months in, knew me, and I said something like, Oh yeah, I'm a follower. And they were like, What? No, you're a leader. What are you talking about? And having them tell me that sort of confirm what they saw, but also just to be a catalyst for that, really allowed me to embrace that and run with it. So yeah, I guess there's a way to be introverted and bold in a sense. My introversion is allows me to be bold and to do what I want to do and lead the life that I want to lead, which is very queer in terms of nonconforming and, stepping outside the social construct so of what we've been told to do and how to live.
Brian [00:06:17] And you also said it was your safe space. Tell me a little bit about the city, the space that you occupied that wasn't safe. You mentioned a little bullying.
Hardy [00:06:26] And yeah, I mean, it was I went to a private school in New Orleans where both of my parents were working, to basically pay to put me through where aside from that, there was, some people like me, but there was a lot of entitlement for a city like New Orleans that is not, or for a city like the ones that is very diverse. It's such an amalgam of different cultures and perspectives. This was not a diverse school. Okay. And I felt like I was in a little bubble. And then on top of that, yeah, I was not a jock. I was not, a cool kid. And so whether it was. all the other stuff, queer, fag, all that kind of stuff. Or, there's one that always sticks out to me, like in the late nineties, early 2000s, when those sort of clingy sweaters were very popular. And I, I really wanted one and I thought it would be so cool and, and I thought my mom finally got me one and I was so excited and I wore to school. I was probably in eighth grade. And I mean, they just swarmed on me, just calling me all the names and my poor mom just being so loving and supportive. She, I just stormed in and she came home from work and I was like, I'm never wearing a clingy sweater again. And she for years, she was just like, oh, gosh, maybe just, he didn't like it or whatever. I didn't tell her about what actually had happened, but just never fitting in. and the pressure there of just not conforming to those kinds of spaces and not feeling okay with who I was because I didn't really have at that point, you still didn't see, different people, especially in terms of like the sexuality spectrum and any kind of expression. You didn't see that on TV. You didn't see any of that was not visible at all. And so that's like I said, when I another part of why theater felt so safe, aside from the standing on stage and being in that space and feeling like you could excuse me be whoever you wanted to be, but then also the people around you were so, supportive and different. And for me to be able as a young person to see the possibilities was huge. Yeah, it was mammoth. Yeah.
Brian [00:08:59] I mean, for the first time, maybe in a long time at this, this is a place you felt comfortable. This is a place where you felt possibilities instead of limitations.
Hardy [00:09:09] Yeah, right. Absolutely. That’s exactly what it is. And I find there's so much freedom in life when you can establish yourself in a state and in spaces where there are possibilities versus limitations. one of my favorite probably my favorite, like musical theater quote is at the end of Sunday in the park with George when it's his he had a grandson, a great grandson in the second act who is the protagonist, George Serrat, the painter. And he's frustrated, he's stifled. He feels like he has nothing left to give or express as an artist. And his muse comes and tells him to just move on. And at the very end, he turns around and he just the stage is completely blank and white. And he's reading his Surratt Journal and it says White, a blank page or canvas, his favorite. So many possibilities. And that has always resonated with me being in a space where you feel grounded enough, solid enough in who you are and the people around you also help with that. But that, yeah, you feel like there's so many different possibilities. And for me, walking out onto a stage or, or being just in a rehearsal studio and playing around, like that's what's really exciting. And it's sort of a micro version of what I enjoy in life now, which is Go do whatever you want, see what's out there and explore. And there's no really wrong answer here. Just go with what feels right and keep playing around with it.
Brian [00:10:51] I hate to divert you further from your story because I want to get back to that. But you've touched on some really interesting topics. And I'm kind of interested in to know your perspective, why so many people feel it necessary to place these limitations and to define and put restrictions on other people and ideas and ideologies and what's behind that? Why can't they just allow others to be others?
Hardy [00:11:19] Yeah. I mean, I feel that there's two things that immediately come to mind. One is control. And I feel like these two are controlling fear now. And from an individual perspective, why do people put limitations and these sort of boxes around themselves when we don't feel solid enough in who we are or we don't feel capable enough when we're constantly, life's always throwing demands at us, the uncontrollable changes of expectation, things go up and down in life. And I'm just not really good at handling that. And I'm stressing all the time and I'm reacting and suffering. And when I don't feel capable, the only real other tool I have is just trying to put all of this control over thinking, over planning, boundaries, constructs, all these. I've got to be this way. I've got to plan. I've got to think. I can't think outside the box because my world is so chaotic that I have to have some form of control. And the only way I know how to do that, if I'm not capable or solid enough to handle this sort of ever changing, evolving world, then my sort of last ditch effort is to try and sort of old everything up, with my control and what I believe the world should be, whether that's, these these planned, constructed views on people or myself or others, this is how it is. And that's it's one of my favorite things to do. And people go like, that's wrong or you can't be that way or that. And if you just simply go, why? And then they go, ? Well, just because, that's what it be. Because and then you see the sort of flimsy, shoddy constructs that they put up as a means of control. That really the other reason that I thought, stem from fear and really fear of fear just stems from, the mistaken belief in separateness And other and not being able to be able to see yourself in others. And so that fear and control, gosh, if I were to, this person who seems very different than me, if I really take a moment to try and find a bit of myself in that person, does that mean that there's also some uniqueness and different things that lie outside of the parameters I've set for myself in me? And that's terrifying to someone who has set up all these rules and boundaries. And so there's a lot of yeah, I find fear and control to be two big reasons why we, we, we do all this stuff and it's, it's exhausting. It's really exhausting. Yeah.
Brian [00:14:13] Yeah. And that's one of the main reasons of this podcast. It's in the title Strangers, we get our daily news feeds based off of our algorithm of where what we've clicked on before and we hear all of this affirming information about where you are is right and how you've defined life is right and everybody else, all those others, they're idiots. We don't understand them. We don't understand them because you haven't sat down and talked with one of them and asked why that. Right. And so with these conversations with complete strangers that have made different life choices and have made have different worldviews and are different from us, it's a great opportunity just to sit down without being threatened and ask some questions and you realize, wow, we've got far more in common with them than I thought. And our differences are just my nude.
Hardy [00:15:10] Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I mean, our attention, it's the most valuable thing we have. And I've found, what you put your attention on grows. And so what are we placing our attention on? And like you said, with the algorithms and all that, people are just getting shown what they want to see. And also on top of that, so many headlines are division suffer or, fear. And so That’s what that's the world they get, . And it is that is a powerful thing to sit down or to just not even sit parties to. Be anywhere in life and place your attention on things that are serving you. Not to say, oh, put on rose colored glasses and everything's lordy da fine, but where can I find, like you're talking about with this podcast, an opportunity for unity, because what we have the greatest issue, in my opinion, of this time, in the greatest need of the time, is a change in consciousness. We have a consciousness problem. Everything else really stems from we have a collective that is very reactive sort of spending and paying all that attention, putting it on things that are dividing us. The fear control. There's not enough unity, there's not enough respect, there's not enough empathy or listening. And not to say we all have to fall in line and listen, in terms of like just do it this way. But let me actually see if I can find some more information by listening to you, glean that sort of productive empathy of, oh, wow. I see. Now that I know a little bit more about you, I see why it is you are the way you are. And now maybe I can actually act in a more relevant way in order to engage with you or make some change. But, we've got a lot of action, but also a lot of inaction as well. But all of this out of fear and stress and reactivity, and that rarely works out in our favor. And we need like I said, it's not about rose colored glasses. We have to be able to listen and find opportunities to relate and also act. And change helped help change the collective, but from in relevant fashion versus when you're stressed and rah rah angry all the time. It's just like running around like a chicken with your head cut off. You're not really doing anything productive.
Brian [00:17:44] I was going to mentioned earlier that junior high isn't necessarily the place for acceptance and openness for anybody. Right. But that's kind of what we're in. It's still we're it's not like an adult junior high or everybody has these fears and there are these positive people and or these popular people and they get to decide what's what not because that's really what's what and what anybody believes in. But we're afraid not to. And there's a lot of that fear in junior high. And now, well, well, what if I'm wrong? And in my mind, the question is bigger than that as well. Well, what if you're closed minded and you're not willing to learn what is already there? That's the worst part. You're missing it. It's right there in front of you. Yeah. You're so worried about pretending that you're right, that you don't really want to be right. You're so worried about pretending the answers that you're not really interested in finding the answer.
Hardy [00:18:36] Yeah, and there's a lot of fear there, too. Out of fear. Yeah. My what I've because there's so much, dogma and, and all these worldviews and traditions in the West, you should, this is the right way. This is the wrong way. And I'm right. You're wrong. There's no other right way. There's no other proper way to see it. And like you said, with the whole junior high thing, a big reason why we still feel like we're in junior high at times is because the way our society is structured in terms of, there's really little to know from about the time we're children. And junior high is really where it starts to stick, equipping people to be critical thinkers, equipping people to be able to take care of themselves. And, in terms of our own well-being and self-care, I found that the more we start in gaining that into our daily routine and see that's important, then naturally we find ourselves to be more capable, less reactive, more productive, better listeners questioning things in a productive way and not so scared of like, our world, our constructs falling down. And so, I think this is a big result of, yeah, around that time we just build up, all of our coping mechanisms, everything we do. And as adults were carrying around all of that stuff and the behaviors of it. I find, this last semester I, I went back to jumping ahead of the life story, but I like where, where you just flow with it. Yeah, I, I got hired to go offer to go back to not back, but just offered to go to Loyola University as adjunct professor, as a theater professor. And my intuition immediately just said, yes, but with the understanding that they would allow me to infuse meditation and self-care and well-being into the curriculum and the creative process. Because one thing that I realized. The year was that a lot of where I normally, when I normalize toxicity in terms of theater industry and just all the inappropriate behavior and lack of boundaries and respect was when I was, young in high school and in the, teenage years. And it's interesting, to talk about how we started off with saying, oh, yeah, theater was my safe space and it was. But at the same time, it was also because it was so open and free and do whatever you want to do. It also could be right or a lot of toxic behavior. And so that's not just in theater, too, but I think, I bring that up talking about, the junior high thing. why are we all behaving like this and normalizing such unsustainable behavior in operating systems? Well, because no one's taught us any different. this is just generation after generation of, well, that's just how it is. Deal with it.
Brian [00:21:58] Yeah. It's a great solution to all of our problems. Right? That's just how it is.
Hardy [00:22:05] Yeah. One thing I love about, I've spent years studying the Veda, which is this body of knowledge from India where we get yoga, meditation, iyer, Veda, not a religion, just simply, more of a worldview. And one thing that I love about it is that critical thinking is a fundamental part of this tradition of knowledge, where, as my teacher put it, it's knowledge that's meant to be shaken. It's expected that you go in and question it. Tom Knowles, who trained me how to teach, one of the most the world's preeminent experts on all this. I'm the guy sitting in the in the crowd. When he's lecturing on balance, I'm raising my hands going, not buying it anymore. Explain, go elaborate. Because I'm not I don't I don't get it yet or I'm not sure if I agree with it yet. And so many different traditions of knowledge, that would be a big no. And life in general, like you said, because I said no just because why versus why. if any knowledge or or way of being is really solid and open and productive and sustainable, it should be able to be to match up to people checking it out and, and, and shaking it up and questioning it, everything, .
Brian [00:23:43] Yeah. So I want to get to all to that stuff later as well. But I do have a question that I want to ask now because we talked about being open minded, but then later you're going to bring up a concept or you've kind of touched on it already about a mantra. What if you have a negative mantra? What if you have this idea that Jesus saves, that Trump will save, that you've got this idea in your head that your sight is right and you keep repeating that not necessarily as a true mantra, but it's the message that goes through your head constantly that leads to being right or narrow minded or exclusive or limited instead of open minded and possibilities and affirming.
Hardy [00:24:34] Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting point, so, mantra is such a popular word, right? Nowadays, like there are these few Sanskrit words that have really caught on in the West, karma mantra, all that kind of stuff. And they've gotten very, just used and sort of skewed. But we actually get a decent amount of English from Sanskrit. But the Latin of India, this is dead language where we the Hindi, modern day Hindi comes from, but it's where you get the term like Indo European languages. So let's just for a second before I dove into that, what? What does mantra mean? Yes, modern means, mind. You can hear the similarity there and then throw in Sanskrit means vehicle. It's where we get words like travel or transit from an English. So mantra means mind vehicle. So it's this thing, The New Yorker and me, I live down in the East Village and I worked in the in Midtown. And so if I wanted to get up to, midtown for a show, I'd hail a cab and then the cab would get me there. And that's what a monitor is designed to do. It's designed to get the mind to wherever you want to go. And yeah, I mean, the mantra. Is that, when I teach in this style of meditation. They're really more sounds and vibrations may have no meaning. They're sort of slippery little things that design are designed to get the mind to excite into deeper levels. But yes, a lot of people in more contemplative styles of meditation, the mantras have meaning. And like you said it just in life, people will use these narratives, these thought patterns, these movements to move ourselves, or to confirm a belief or to keep us solid in our stuff. And so these are the truths that we're telling ourselves. And, the world is for us as we are for it. I found. So, the world I've found is basically sitting there going, What kind of world do you want me to be today? And, you could go into the science of all this in terms of like, we live in an observer dependent universe because you ask everyone, I'm looking out of this wonderful tree in the yard and you ask me to describe this tree, and I'm going to give you one perspective on it. And you ask someone else and they're going to give you a totally different description of this tree. And it all depends on how you see it and what you're thinking and your state of consciousness and your experience. And so, like you said, if you have all these notions, these thought patterns and these sort of self-proclaimed truths going on in your head, that's what you're going to believe. And if you are, depending on how you've been raised, your operating system in terms of your mind and your nervous system. Yeah. I mean, you are it's just I think of these like you said, if you want if we want to think of that as like a mantra or a thought pattern, it's like a thread, just one thread after one thread over and over again. And you can break one thread pretty easily. But like a rope. A rope, like a big thick rope is really tough. And I can't just go and try to break it, ? But really all the rope is it's just thread after thread. Read the paper thread. And so what we're really doing on a mental level with what it is that we're thinking, what we believe the world to be is we are laying thread after thread. And so for most folks, they have a big, thick rope of mistaken belief or these sort of hard yet fragile truths that they've just laid thread after thread, and we can't just cut it. It usually takes if we're going to change daily practice of being a little more open, being a little more, sort of shaking things up or just little shifts. So same thing we're sort of removing thread after thread to sort of, uncoil that big hard rope of mistaken intellect and thinking.
Brian [00:28:44] That, yeah, that's really I like that visual. Can you give an example of a rope that was in your head that you had to go back and ratify or.
Hardy [00:28:58] Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, there are some like so many, but the first one that comes up into my head that really brings me joy now to think of and I haven't thought of in a bit like the word authenticity used to scare the hell out of me. And I, I couldn't really put a finger on it, but I would just I would even, like, write it out and it would, like, really scare me. I would get, like, fearful and just like and I think also, I think the one now looking back on it, what scared me was I knew that it was a big, thick rope of that I didn't feel like I was being who I truly was. Like I was living my sort of truest life. And gosh, that was scary in terms of, well, how do I even, like, approach that? That seems like such a huge mountain to summit. And so for a while, and that was a wonderful first step of just the fact that I was able to, like, take note of it after a little bit of time and go, Huh? I wonder why I'm a little afraid of it versus like in the past. And what? It's totally normal. What a lot of people will do is like, Oh, my God, that's terrifying. Nope, nope, nope. That gave it away. Like, close the door, like no verses. Like, it's such a huge step or any of us just can be gentle with ourselves and maybe be a little curious about it. I find that just some easy curiosity about whatever it is that we're feeling, not having too much of an opinion about it. But oh, yeah, there's a little fear there. There's a lot of fear there. And so, with a lot of the work that I ended up doing and continue to do in my life in terms of taking care of myself, and just making the shift to be curious, to explore. Law to bring all this stuff out of the shadows and also just dedicate time each day to refilling my tank and being a better person and getting some stress out and resting or just treating myself. I find that what was my way, unbeknownst to me, rather than in the past, was like, I've got to challenge or like figure out and fix my authenticity. That was the perfectionist and me saying like, okay, you've got to fix it, versus just sort of this process of growth and taking care of myself. And now all these years later, like when you ask me that, it just made me smile to go, Oh, wow. Like, I stripped back that wrote thread by thread, sort of each thread every day was just being gentle with myself, being curious, treating myself, exploring around, feeling like crap sometimes and allowing myself to feel that way and just thread after thread, removing that fear. And now, I feel very much me and enjoying living a life that I never thought I would live and never planned on living. But it feels very much me and I love that I didn't have to, tackle this giant, it wasn't very effort filled in terms of me like going in and just trying to, like, cut throat. It just was right stuff, ? And so, yeah, that was for sure a big one that came same thing thread by thread.
Brian [00:32:27] Yeah. For, for me, I think the biggest part of that whole process has been to recognize that there is a rope there.
Hardy [00:32:37] Yeah.
Brian [00:32:37] And I like the way you say, get a little curious about it and, and allow yourself to sit with that without feeling like you need to solve it immediately or it's a bad thing or it's just that's a thing. It's there. Just see it and recognize it. And when you feel up to it, maybe we go take a step closer and we look at it and say, Why? What? What does it mean? Why is it there? How did it get there?
Hardy [00:33:03] Yeah, I mean, that's over half the opportunity. I don't want to say challenge, but like half sort of the practice we could say is simply being aware of it and, and it really ignorance to sort of forms of ignorance. I find one where it's just full on lack of awareness. I am fully out of it. I'm not aware of it yet. Yes. Where that can be, that, that happens. But I honestly find more often than not, most people are practicing the other form of ignorance, which is I know there's a better possibility out there yet I'm choosing to ignore it. And so exactly what you're saying. I see the rope there. I see the scary stuff. I see that there. And even it might not even be. I know it's there's a better way, but I see that there might be some other thing that I could explore or some other path I could go down. But nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Ignore it, ignore it and let me keep going about. I don't want to break this sort of shell of what I, because we're afraid of the unknown, . And so there's a lot of cultivated ignorance going on and, in all aspects of our society and where we're people are definitely choosing to ignore.
Brian [00:34:22] Yeah, yeah.
Hardy [00:34:25] Yeah.
Brian [00:34:26] Great conversation. Some fantastic topics. I love that.
Hardy [00:34:30] I love to see where it goes. I do this with my students, all the time. You just got to let it flow. So yeah.
Brian [00:34:38] Is there something else you want to talk about or can we get back to you in high school and kind of pick a different there or.
Hardy [00:34:45] Yeah, I mean we can pick it back up. Yeah, we can, let's, let's go back to that. Yeah. I mean I sort of going back to that at the time my, my version of control was, okay, let's have a plan, a one year plan. The five year plan. The ten year plan.
Brian [00:35:03] Perfectionism, right?
Hardy [00:35:04] Oh, yes. It was.
Brian [00:35:06] Checklists and. Yeah, yeah.
Hardy [00:35:08] Yeah. And I did it. .
Brian [00:35:11] What great was your what was your five year or ten year plan at that point?
Hardy [00:35:14] so well, let's see. I wanted to go to get into the arts high school, step one that I wanted to go to, I guess, five years. I wanted to go to a musical theater program, a BFA Bachelor of Fine Arts program in college musical theater program. And at the time, there are a lot more now. But, 20 years ago, there weren't that many and there were about five or six really elite programs in the country. So I had to get into one of those that was. Okay.
Brian [00:35:50] So now just go to one of go to the one of five. One of the best. Yeah.
Hardy [00:35:55] Yeah.
Brian [00:35:55] And that perfectionism. Right.
Hardy [00:35:57] Yes. Did that, and Barry, that was sort of the first flavor in that industry of like rejection and work, because I thought I was, at an arts high school, oh, I was the lead in shows. And, I was all of a sudden I went from, like, the queer outcast to being like a queer, cool kid, ? And which I do.
Brian [00:36:22] Feel good, right? I mean, come on. Come on.
Hardy [00:36:25] Yeah, absolutely. And still to this day, some of my dearest friends are from that time, I just officiated the wedding of one of my best friends from arts high school, wonderful. And yeah. But then, the program I went into, we had the largest class ever in that program and there were nine of us, out of hundreds and hundreds of kids who were auditioning. And so, got put through the ringer, a wonderful but very demanding time. And then the next thing was, okay, I want to get a national tour. Okay.
Brian [00:37:02] You were thinking about in high school. That was that was your.
Hardy [00:37:05] Goal was, growing up outside of New York, you would see these Broadway tours come through and I'd go to every one. And so that was really the enticing thing of, oh, gosh, like how amazing I could be on that stage and like this giant seed house and this feels like a Broadway show and, with professional performers. So how cool would that be? And so worked like hell, like those four years, BFA programs, you're cramming about five years of of training and work and credit hours to about four years. And you are getting ready for, and in a sense, yeah, being sort of programed and ready to deal with all the demands of that industry and the, the sustainable and the unsustainable. And yeah. And, and, and so senior year I was flying up to New York for calls because I wanted to, book things and, by the end of my semester of senior year, I had already booked one national tour. And about two weeks after I graduated, I booked another national tour. So I was with one for a few months and then hopped on another one and stayed with that for about a little under a year. Yeah.
Brian [00:38:28] Hardy, you're killing it.
Hardy [00:38:30] You are, right? Yeah. I mean, and I, I did well, and, on and off for the next ten years, I was boring, and I did, after that first tour I did. That was the first big reality check that the plan still all played out. But my first sort of wrench was, I was on the national tour of Cats. That was the second one I was on for about it for about a little under a year and I was 22 and yeah, I thought I was hot stuff, I was oh yeah. I'm bored. I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do.
Brian [00:39:06] When you were back in high school, you put the penultimate goal of this is where I want to be. This is what I want to do for a living. And now, five, six years later, this is you. You're doing it. This, this is where you wanted to be, right?
Hardy [00:39:18] Yeah. And the ten year plan, this was, about, 80% there. And then it was, get another role on a national tour and get Broadway. That’s the pinnacle. But, so I was on this the tour with Cats and I was 22 and I had just been hopping from show to show even throughout college and even high school, just it never stopped. And then they offered to renew my contract on Cats. I said, no, I'm ready for the next thing. I'm just going to go back to New York and just probably audition for one or two things now. But the next thing I knew a year later and I start counting at 130 no's and rejections and getting cut, and I still hadn't gotten the job. Wow. That was so wonderfully productive. And like I look back on that year, which was like one of the most challenging years of my life, but now like seeing the greater context and, and who had helped me become like, oh, it was so productive. It was that first, what I call like a pattern interrupt, sort of just throw the wrench in the machine. You've got all your habits and your routines and your thinking patterns, and going back to your saying about like how a lot of people the way we think and what we're telling ourselves every day in education fields is the term that I've come to really love. Like if you're feeling really stuck in that sort of ever repeating. No, and whether it's a life habit. We're thinking a thought pattern going in. And just even if it's just a simple little thing, pattern interrupts can be so great. And sometimes you can cure rate it by going something as simple as like, I'm going to take a different route to work today. Just spice things up. Something that seems sort of trite, but it really, I'm going to just go for a walk and not have a destination. But then sometimes, like in this scenario, this was an enforced pattern interrupt where it was going stop and yeah, I was working let's see, I was a bar back. I was a cater waiter. I was folding sweaters at J.Crew. I was a manny taking care of, a little two year old boy, all the while auditioning nonstop. It's a full time job, but you're not getting paid for it. And just no after, no, after, no, after, no. And I have a very specific memory of this. One night, I was exhausted. I got up at 430 in the morning to wait in line in the cold just to get in, to get on an unofficial list, to be seen for this some random show and sat around all day that you would sit around at times for like 8 hours trying to get seen. And then that specific day, I sat around on a little bench and they finally came out and said, We don't have time for you and didn't even get seen, which was very frustrating and then went to go to day job one and a day job too. And then, it's 1:02 a.m. and it's freezing and I'm sitting waiting for the subway. And I just and I knew I had to get up again for another audition, probably in three or 4 hours. And I just remember at the moment thinking, oh, my God, this is rough. But then I had this other moment that crept in that went but you're going to be really glad you did this. whether I quote unquote, make it or not, you're going to look back on this time and go, what? You gave it your frickin all by, sitting here and I still look back on that night as a very like just with so much pride and warmth of, like, whether, if I would have never worked again in theater, I knew that I had at least put everything into it, ? Yes. That was a really I now it's all about perspective and time. But like yeah, if you would have asked me, was that 14, 15 years ago, oh, man, don't ask me about that time. It was hard. I was ready to be a part of that. But now that with where it's led me and help shape me into who I am and I look back on it was such like gosh thank goodness for that and I'm so yeah just warms my heart talking about such a challenging year, .
Brian [00:43:44] But it is those dark moments and those that anger and those difficult times that force us to become something we couldn't have been otherwise.
Hardy [00:43:55] Mean, if you can see it as such. Yeah.
Brian [00:43:58] Well that is what does it whether you go back and acknowledge it or recognize it is something else. But until you get angry enough, you're not going to change something. Yeah, you have to get angry or upset or disappointed with it enough to the point where you're saying, okay, no more. I'm going to fix that and I'm going to do whatever it takes to fix it.
Hardy [00:44:18] Yeah.
Brian [00:44:18] And sometimes we don't choose that. Sometimes, like in your case, it's thrust upon you. you're you ready to walk in, say, excuse me, brought up Broadway, I'm ready now. And they're like, the line starts like six years from now and a way around that corner.
Hardy [00:44:34] And, some people never, like you said. Yeah, it we need that more often than not to spur us into action. But if you can't see it that way, there's so many people who for the rest of their lives, go through that experience or, even more traumatic experiences. And they that then that's just it's forever the. Oh, well, it's terrible. It's terrible. Why did this happen to me? And being able to shift from why is this happening? Why is this happening for me? that's it. That can be a tough shift. someone I always think of in terms of like perspective and things happening is like, look at Malala, like this amazing young woman who as a girl was shot in the head. Yeah. Wanting to go learn, learn and educate themselves. She had every right to after that go. what, life is terrible. the world is horrible. And this happened to me, and I just life sucks and that's it. And she did not look at how she took that and use it for not only herself, but for the entire world to inspire everyone to fight, to make the world a better place to educate. Young women and girls. And that is the perfect example that I often think of, of like, very traumatic situations. Yet depending on how you are viewing the world and experiencing things and your perspective, your attitude, what you want out of life. You can absolutely use that, like you said, to spur you forward and go, Oh, I'm going to act upon this and be productive with this, versus where a lot of people just let it rule them for the rest of their lives or for very long periods.
Brian [00:46:20] So besides that moment, how else do you take 130 rejections, consecutive rejections in those conditions and still say, no, I'm going to make this work? I mean, that's the definition of insanity, right? I mean, at some point, it's got to creep in. Your inner critic has got to tell you this isn't for you or you're not getting the message.
Hardy [00:46:44] Yeah. it's yeah, it's so funny because there are definitely times where it felt like that definition of insanity. Insanity. I was doing the same thing over and over.
Brian [00:46:53] I go to another audition, I tell, see how it turns out. I tell you how it turns out. It turns out like 130.
Hardy [00:46:59] But for me, at that time, one, it was a great like a great lesson for me in learning, control and really relinquishment of control.
Brian [00:47:10] Like a scary thought.
Hardy [00:47:11] Oh, yeah. I mean, now, like all the years that I've sort of spent exploring and being curious about a number, meditation, all these things and practicing now it sort of actually eases me up when I'm getting a little too caught up is saying to myself, Relax. Nothing is under control. But this was sort of the first little flavor of experiencing that. What I realized was, one, there was still a big fire in me sitting out on that bench for 8 hours or more a day and hearing all these other actors go in. And I was just like, Just let me in the frickin room. If I could just get in the frickin room. And even then, at times I get an African room, and then I'd still be like, Next, thank you. But I knew that there was more for me to do. And, and where the fire came from was I started to learn what I was in control of and what I was not. I was. Let's start with what I was in control of. I was in control of how much work I put into this in terms of preparation so I could go home, I could whatever like sides they gave me or music they wanted or whatever. But I was choosing to prepare salt like the song cut. I could work on that. I could get the practice from, I could go to class and continue training and getting better. That was all within my control. I could keep working on that. Then when I get into the room and I'd have casting directors go, Oh, he's a little lanky or Oh, is either uneven or Oh, his ears are funny, which are all things that people would say to my face about me? And for me, I started having a moments with that where, for a lot of people, understandably so, could very much be like, oh, my God, I'm horrible. I'm horrible. What do I do about this? Yeah, I remember hearing a casting director say that to my face and I had a moment of, Well, what am I supposed to do about that? Can't I can't level out my eyes, and that it almost made me laugh. And then I had a moment of like, yeah, out of my control. And that really started to help, which was, okay, here's what I can control. The work, the preparation. I cannot control all of what they think of me, how they think I look. Am I the right fit for this director, choreographer, casting agent, all without all outside of my control? And so that helped me go forward. But no, that's not to please don't think that like I still also wasn't dealing with the toll of rejection over and over again. But the best way I found to move through it was to simply, I just had to be persistent. My mom sent me a card. I remember that first year in New York and it was some quote, but I can't remember it. But just the word persistence, it all comes down to persistence. Just you have to keep showing up. And like you said, we want to be careful to not just keep showing up and doing the exact same thing in the way that I think I shifted and didn't move into the definition of insanity was that over and over again, over and over again started to shift into letting go a little bit of certain notions of, of control and that really helped. And even, after I finally booked some, I booked a, a regional gig and then right like a week later, I booked another national tour and then back to that whole world, but definitely gave me a new appreciation going back on stage, having been away from it for so long and understanding. But it's not necessarily a given and the fact that and how wonderfully it organized that my the next tour I got was a chorus line which is literally a show that is it's an audition about people. What I had literally just gone through. So in a sense, there was my there was a big form of therapy for me to really explore and just lose myself in every night, having just been through that life. And I got to tell that story on stage.
Brian [00:51:17] Well, what way does that show exist? Right. It's because enough people have been through that, that the God, I hope I get it. And all of a sudden is now a musical number and it's like, Yeah, that's all. That's a whole production. Yeah. Because that's been my life for a year while I've been washing dishes and babysitting and.
Hardy [00:51:34] Yeah, it's definitely like my, my most it's my, it's, I have like two pretty favorite moments in theater and like that, and that show for me and that, that tour, which was so demanding, I mean, my body was hurting all the time. your bus and truck in it a lot and, quick stops, one-nighters and just in and out. You were lucky to get one week. And it's a very demanding. But no matter how I felt during the day, the moment I walked out on stage, no matter how I was feeling, I was just so grateful and really like, I mean, the only thing I just felt really honored to tell that story every night and to let however, whatever I was feeling that day just drained out and just sort of gush out into the work. It was very special. And while my body nowadays, I don't know if I could do it, I still I love that show so much and what it did, and continues to do. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So, back out on the road and so for the next few years, regional, regional stuff touring after that, came back to New York and yeah, back to auditioning and really sort of setting my sights. I was not a dancer growing up and Cats Chorus Line I worked really hard. Talk about the things you tell yourself by, all throughout college, I, I had this line in my head, You're not a dancer. You're not a dancer. And I was working really hard every day in dance class to get better. But still in the back of my head, it was like, you're not a dancer. And then like, next thing I'm getting called back for shows like Cats and Chorus Line, and I still go, You're not a dancer. And that and it was when I got cast in Cats and I was like, Wait, I guess I can dance.
Brian [00:53:34] And I didn't get cast in that role by being a singer. You don't get cast in that role by being an actor.
Hardy [00:53:40] No. Well, and I mean, it helps. And I think that was my story, too, because.
Brian [00:53:43] That particular roles are looking for a dancer who can act or a dancer who can sing. Okay.
Hardy [00:53:48] Yeah, well, and it ended up, sort of becoming a triple threat situation. But I kept in my head thinking, you're a double, you're a double threat, and you can't do a lick, a dance you.
Brian [00:53:58] Can pass a little bit on here when you need to.
Hardy [00:54:01] Yeah, but it was just fascinating that yeah, the things we tell ourselves where if you really look at what you're actually doing, it's totally an illusion. Because I was I had gotten myself to be a great dancer, but I was telling myself otherwise. But that popped up. But yeah, after Chorus Line, I wanted to sort of get back to more or less dancing one just because it was very taxing on my body. And I really I didn't I wasn't as passionate about it as I was acting and singing and all that. And so I spent about another year auditioning in New York doing day jobs and stuff. And right as I'd gotten off the road with Chorus Line, this new show, it just popped up on Blown Up in New York Book of Mormon. And I had no idea about it because I've been on the road and not really paying attention to it. And then I was starting to have multiple friends go like, Oh, you've got to go and you're perfect for your perfect bar. And I was like, okay, well, I mean, let me check it out. And at the time it had just opened and nobody was leaving that show, but they had their first what's called like a required call. So, the union or choir shows, I believe I could be wrong on this every six months to hold auditions so that actors can union actors can be seen. And so I went and they were just putting people on file but, went through the whole process, putting on file, meeting. We might look at you in the future if there's an opening. And then about five or five months later they called me back in because now there was word that they were going to open up a first national tour. And this was the first time in a while, having now gotten pretty good at relinquishing that control and realizing what's out of my control in terms of auditions and not getting my hopes up, not thinking too far ahead. Dreaming of getting the job. I really did not do that. I would just show up, do the work, not get attached to it. And if I got a great if I didn't find this was a show, it just felt so right to me. And it was going to be this. It was this big hit. And I. I let myself dream of it. I let myself, like, oh, you could have a stable job and, like, get really good money and like, it's a great show and like, it wouldn't close after, a month or even a year. And so I went in for the first national and it was like a two week process and in and out. And I was just killing it and I felt really good about it. And my agents were like, They love you. Here's some notes to work on. Like, they're really interested. And, and we got to the last day, my agent told me that you're going in tomorrow, one last time just for, all the creatives and that'll be it, ? And you'll do like a dance combination that you've already done a million times, and you're going to prepare these cuts and then you'll be good. And so went in and they said, Yeah, we're going to do this dance combination one more time just to see it, and then we'll get to the real work. And we did the dance combination and I felt great about it. And they cut me and I was just it was like the rug got pulled out from under me. I was like, okay, I've never been so dumbfounded or shook at an audition before. And I just I literally I think I stood there slack jawed and I think everyone but like two people and it was down to like maybe 20 of us, probably for seven tracks in the show. And they only at that point only cut like two of us. And I was like, and I remember I just like had to run out because I knew I was about to just break down in tears. And then I ran into the director as he's like, literally face to face. And I was trying not to cry. And I just got out, got home. And I remember I just closed my door and I just remember I was like, I need to give myself just an hour or two to grieve this, to grieve everything that I had sort of dreamed about with this life. And then I had to go to my, or night shift the J. Crew and fold more sweaters and that and then.
Brian [00:58:05] Living the dream here at J.Crew.
Hardy [00:58:07] Yeah. Yeah. And that life, that reality of like, oh, and then three more months went by and I heard that, oh gosh. Like there was another tour going out of Mormon because this was sort of, like, like a Lion King or Wicked. And after a Mormon, like a Hamilton were so big that they could have multiple companies. But then I had a moment of, Oh, you've got to be kidding me like this again. Yeah, I do. I even go in. And the other thing was they didn't tell me why they cut me because usually at that point they'll let or like give your agent and of like, yeah, it just wasn't he did this or that or it just wasn't working out and I didn't get a lick. And my agent who, I just did not get along with and I did not feel like they had my back just told me, well, it is what it is next. And so when I heard that they were having an open call for this next tour, I was like, I'm going in, I need to figure this out. And my agent said, Absolutely not. You're going to look desperate. You're going to look, it's just an open call and you've gotten beyond that. Like, if they want to invite you back, they'll invite you back. And I said, Nope, I'm going in and say to the casting assistant, nobody else will be there and I'm going to figure this out. And I went in usually like, yeah, you're invited in. You're, you're there in front of like the creative team. This was literally just a quick initial call and I did a quick 16 bars and thank goodness one of the casting agents that just really had my back got to the end of that quick call. And she goes, Harvey, it's great to see you. What happened? I said, I don't know. if you have any information, I'd love. And she was like, Hi, yeah, I remember like your name was in the pile and then it wasn't and let me get back to you. You're going to be in town, right? And I said, Oh, I'm definitely going to be in town. And week later, they called me in and, started going back to the callback process and got to that last day again. And I went in and I remember.
Brian [01:00:07] Me nervous getting on this last day again. I honestly and I know how it ends, but I just.
Hardy [01:00:12] And I went in and I, I went in not caring, talking about just how things have changed or like by this point over the years with auditioning, I spent so long thinking, going in and trying to give what I thought they wanted me to be. Who is this person? what do they want me to be? What are the choices they want me to make? And every time I would do that, I would blow it because like, I wasn't, following my instincts and being who I was, making my choices. And at this time, I think because it had been eight months of auditioning and getting cut and in and out for the same gig. And I was just like, what? Here's who I am. Here's what I have to offer. This is what I. And I went in and I killed it. They were reacting positive typically to it. They were laughing. They were in it. They were just you could tell and I knew I'd killed it. And as were wrapping up and they were saying thank you. And someone said that, like Hardy, that was great. Like, something's changed. What's different? And without even thinking, I just said, honestly, I don't care what you think. And right afterwards, I went, Oh, my God, I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything.
Brian [01:01:14] They're like.
Hardy [01:01:16] We're like, great. And that's the thing I know when I tell young, young performers that training now, like, it's not in a flip and way of like, screw you, I don't care. But it's that I did everything I needed to do. And I am proud of my work and my choices as a performer and as an artist. And whether you like it or not, that's not up to me. I'm not attached to that.
Brian [01:01:39] Yeah, I did my job. Well, now it's time for you to do your job.
Hardy [01:01:43] Well, yes. And that's that was the reality check over the years of auditioning for me was there are, hundreds of people in New York and all over who are just as talented as you, just as phenomenal and have so many unique abilities. What's going to make you stand out? these phenomenal triple threats, hundreds of them seen, one after another. And the thing that's going to make you stand out is your unique quirks, my uneven eyes, my lanky ness, my unique quirks and abilities. And the moment I started to own that, then I started actually getting more work, more callbacks And once again, the sort of first flavors of that authenticity before I even recognized that's what it was that I was embracing. So, yeah, I booked this, I booked the show, and it was the second national tour, but it was really the Chicago company. We opened the Chicago company. We were there for about a year. And so in a sense, thank goodness I got cut from that first national network as they were doing most of the traveling. And I got to live in Chicago for a year. I got to live in California basically for a year in L.A. for five, six months, San Francisco for a couple of months. And that ended up being sorry, everyone out there who are in the other companies but like the best company and yeah. And then, it was so wonderful that they just were taking us left, right and sideways over to the Broadway company. So did Mormon on the road for two and a half years. And that's when I got into yeah. That's when I about a year into my time with Mormon was when I got into meditation. Yeah. And that's sort of when everything shifted.
Brian [01:03:28] So I want to back up for one, one little bit before we move forward with that. Are you doing okay with time?
Hardy [01:03:35] Oh, yeah, I'm good.
Brian [01:03:36] Okay, good.
Hardy [01:03:36] Stop me whenever you need to.
Brian [01:03:38] Yeah. So you said you got to the point where you really you just didn't care what they thought. Do you think there's, like a self weeding out process that if you've got a weakness. Mhm. Excuse me. You don't have that confidence and that the casting directors are actually looking for someone who is confident enough to know that they don't have a weakness. That's all they're looking for. If you've got a weakness in this area, you should work on it a little bit more. And maybe you got to the area where you're like, I don't have weaknesses anymore. I have figured out I am the fall. I am the full bond best that I'm ever going to be. And I need to keep up with that. But once you're there, it's like it. And that comes across in the casting call.
Hardy [01:04:24] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a really interesting question. I, I definitely still knew I had weaknesses or what some might perceive to be as weakness. But I think for me it was owning back, and so where I was confident was in the work that I had done in terms of preparing for things, okay, preparing for the gig. And, and really I think my confidence also was in my now looking back, I didn't know what this all was, what I was experiencing at the time, but I was. My confidence came also from a lot of non-attachment. I was not attached to what, I need them to, approve of me. I need them to give me the job. I'm attached to how this all plays out. I'm attached to the details and my the way I'm expecting it to go at that point, because really, life had just sort of I have been barreling through this process in and out, getting cut kind of back where I went, look, here's what is in my control. Here's what I'm able to do. I'm just going to go in and show them everything that I have to give in the way I want to show it. If you like it, great. If you don't, that's fine. And so it's not yeah, it's not necessarily like I am. I am the best. I am the full package. It's just here's my fullest version of what I think, this, this, this track should be. You like it? Great. If you don't, don't. And I'll be on to the next. Because basically you've put me through enough that like I'm not I'm no longer. It's sort of talk about why is this happening for me? I have gotten to a place because of this whole process where it was like, I have to let go of this notion of like dreaming that this is going to happen. I have to literally just do the work, give it my all, and not be attached to what happens in terms of, what comes out of it. So I find now and that was probably the first iteration of it, a lot of my confidence and I think a lot of people sustainable, confident confidence comes from simply believing and seeing the evidence that you are wildly capable, your capability. And so that for me was, I knew that I had done the work. I knew that I prepared. I knew that I was I could do the job. And that in a sense, like what some people might call my weaknesses, whether it was my looks or yeah, were there probably there's always someone who's better, in any facet or aspect of your training or abilities. But I was picking me and take it or leave it. It's okay, and I needed to have that sort of break know at the time back in the fall, that first time I got cut, I saw it as a break down. But then I really saw it afterwards as a breakthrough of being able to let go of all that. And so, yeah, my, my, my capability and the work, was really, I think what had me doing it. And now like when I, like, as a theater professor, I tell my students all the time, I'm never grading you on your talent or ability. I'm grading you on. Did you show up? Did you show up on time? Did you do the work? Are you doing the work in terms of preparing, training, trying hard diving to the work, exploring yourself and owning who you are? That’s all I'm grading you on because that's the that's all the stuff nurturing now, which I wish I had even earlier than I did, just sort of cutting them off at the pass and getting them used to what's within your control. Let's work on that, and building up the confidence from there. Yeah.
Brian [01:08:15] Does that do you think that in any way undermines the fact that you're awfully nice to them? But when they get to Broadway, nice isn't part of it. I'm not grading you on your effort. I'm grading you exactly on what you just did in the last 16 measures. And that's all you're going to get if you're lucky. That's all you're going to get.
Hardy [01:08:32] Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's such a that could lead to a whole other conversation about like the industry now and what we're reckoning with thank goodness, because like I said, it's so unique that, yes, theater community is in many ways such a safe. We are wonderful environment, but it is also a very toxic, unsustainable. There's so many toxic, unsustainable ways that we are just scratching the surface of right now in the last way we do it. Yes. Yeah.
Brian [01:09:03] No, we need to address that very thought.
Hardy [01:09:06] Yeah. And so, another big thing that, in answer to your question, . Yeah, I mean, it's, it comes down to those 16 bars a lot of the time. But I found personally, there's no need to break people down, because that's how I was trained. Welcome. Welcome to theater. Welcome to Broadway. It's goodness you're going to hurt. You're going to be treated like dirt. And if you get the line that we all any actor rolls their eyes at, now, if you are just told over and over again, if you could think of anything else you want to do, go do it. Meaning like because you're not tough enough or you're not just willing to deal with being treated this way. So get out, ? So, now looking back on when I work with young people, absolutely. I want to push you. I want to encourage you. And yes, at times I will hold you accountable for yourself. But I don't have to tear you down. I don't have to. I want to make you feel strong and capable. And yes, sometimes the best way to do that is to push you and see how you did it. You made it through, and you actually can do this. And the more, finding sustainable ways to be confident, capable and also to have some boundaries, to say, maybe I don't want to do this or that, I don't want to go in for this or that or work with this person. And so, a lot of that confidence, I found comes with like actually building yourself up and showing yourself that you can handle it versus, yeah, it's tough. But yeah, in answer to your question, the it is it's I taught an audition technique class this last semester at Loyola and it often comes down to coming in. And did it did you hit it that time? Sometimes you won't. Okay. Hey, the great thing is there's going to be five more auditions tomorrow, again. Again. But what is going to hurt is if you get too attached to each thing, stay, stay, stay on top of your work and your training and it'll organize the way it needs to. Yeah.
Brian [01:11:15] Yeah. Don't, don't get attached to a role until it's yours.
Hardy [01:11:18] Yeah. Yeah. And that's, in life now that's really, it's so cool to see that three lines like that's what I train people on in life. As we often confuse not attachment with detachment, detachment meaning more of like, I don't care, whatever. I'm cold. Like, none of this matters. I'm detached versus not attach simply meaning, yeah, we can be driven, we can have desires and goals. It's not the desires that really, you'll hear a lot of Eastern worldview say like desires at the root of all suffering. My perspective in my studies, it's not that desires at the root of all suffering. It's that our attachment to the desires of the remorse. So I'm desiring I need to get Book of Mormon. And if I don't get Book of Mormon like expectations of life, I need things to go this way. And if they don't, I struggle, I stress, I suffer. And so what we're doing is I'm driven. I have this goal, but I'm not concerned with, like, the timing, the details, the outcome. I'm going to keep trying for it. But then if it doesn't work out well, I'm going to move on to the next thing. I'm not attached to how it plays out. I move where it feels right to move and in that direction. And I stay driven. But it's a more sustainable way to be driven than just, I would see so many people in auditions where they just were so jaded or and really under that jaded ness was just a lot of heartbreak, because they were it's just, day after day, year after year of no, no, no. And having those expectations shattered again and again. And I didn't want to do that. I remember telling friends and family members, I was like, I love you if I'm still, like doing the exact same thing, like the exact same way when I'm like in my mid thirties and this was when I was like 22 all me and say I love you, but it's time to try something a new way, . And I got that message, I mean like we've just been talking about. I got that within a year or two and adjusted, .
Brian [01:13:20] So it's kind of ironic. You mentioned you're now in Chicago. Cast your second tour and they're starting to pull people from there into Broadway. And it's starting to happen now. I. You're like a half a step away from that. And it's also the time you find meditation, which is arguably the thing that might take you away from that. Go back and talk to both of those. But before you do, I'm kind of interested to know, is there some kind of. Karmic force with that, is there some kind of kismet that is preparing you for the next step, even before you've taken this one in?
Hardy [01:14:02] In my experience. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But the beautiful thing is, from what I've found and, in my practice, my experience and my studies with this sort of Vedic worldview is what is that force? Yeah, it's it's, so absolutely.
Brian [01:14:29] It's your self preparing you for, hey, I can feel this is coming, this is going to be here. But let me also give you some foreshadowing into what's happening after that so you can be ready for it when it comes.
Hardy [01:14:40] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Vedic worldview, I mean, you could spend a lifetime studying this knowledge, but the summation of it all comes down to one sentence, which is simply there's only one thing and we're all it. And I find, you could say that till the cows come home, but are you experiencing that? And to what extent are you experiencing that? And I didn't start exploring this until, I've been meditating for a long time. And the more I started tinkering around with this knowledge and being like, wow, yeah, this is sort of confirming more and more of what I'm experiencing on a daily basis. But, talking about kismet or, was this organizing, the Vedic worldview as the only thing that's ever happening is progressive change, evolution. And I mean, all of this is simply observable patterns that are going on in life, cause and effect. This is happening. And as a direct result of this happening, that happens. And this is simply a report on what's going on. And so when I say the only thing that's happening is progressive change in evolution, look outside, nothing stays the same. everything, whether it is growing or decaying, falling away, that's changed to making room for new growth. But nothing, even if it's it takes thousands of years. Nothing stays static and it's always moving towards some more evolved state. What makes us think that we're exempt from that? And so and people throw around, oh, the universe, the universe, which right. You want to think of it that way.
Brian [01:16:14] But it's one of those vague terms that doesn't really mean anything, but it's easy to use. And.
Hardy [01:16:19] Yes, exactly. And I think because we don't have an experience or of an understanding. And what I have found, that slight loving correction I'll give to my students when they talk about this is the Vedic correction on that would be your universal nature. Your more the bigger more expansive universal self. It's all it's not separate and other from you. It's your greater intelligence going, hey, this direction and how do we follow that? how are we in line with that or against it? It's not through thinking or intellect. It's our fine level of feeling, that intuition gut, our gut, whatever you want to call it, this feels right. And so the more we move with that fine level of feeling, that's sort of universal nature. Big self, go this way, this way. And so, there's all these, debates on yeah, all that. So in my experience, it's, is, what's the big philosophical debate, free determinism or free will, and the Vedic worldview is, oh, it's all connected. It's the same. So yeah. And how this sort of brought me to the, tying this back in to where I was at that point in my life with Mormon. So I had heard about this style of meditation when I was with a Chorus Line and I, I was getting to a point where, I had all these, the plans. I was still very driven, but I was getting to a place where even though I was accomplishing all the things I wanted to accomplish, it was starting to come at a cost in terms of my stress and sustainability. I was, I used to say like, oh, stress gives me my edge. It's what keeps me sharp. It like it pushes me. It's my fuel, man. And it was but like, next thing not next thing . But as the years went by, I was dealing with insomnia, chronic anxiety. I would have occasional panic attacks. And then physiologically I was having bouts of psoriasis and they would come and go these rashes on my elbows and fingers. And my doctors would literally tell me, like, it's coming when you're stressed and it's going when you're not bad. So I would, go to yoga class or do like a meditation app or like, at the end of a class, someone would tell you to sit upright and lotus position and put your hands in that position. And I was like, I don't like any of this. This is not comfortable. Clear the mind. And I was like, Wow, I suck at this. this is I can't do this. And so I just had I kept having these experiences that would confirm my mistaken belief that meditation was not for me and that it was, as I termed it, woo. And it was for like non perfectionist driven people like me. I just couldn't do it. And then I was having a conversation with a coworker about it and they were telling me, this style is, was developed. Most of the styles of meditation that we think of were designed for our monastic traditions, very disciplined, rigid, concentration based techniques. They weren't designed for people like us. And so no wonder it's hard for us to do art for us, even though it might give us some relaxation. It's hard to integrate into our lives. Whereas this style was designed thousands of years ago for and by people like us. It was known as householders. So people with relationships and jobs and living in the relative, the world with all of its demands, with this style, you sit comfortably, you don't have to hold a position. In my ten years of meditating, I've never had a thought. Premeditation. It's not about concentrating the mind or controlling it really were just innocently surrendering to the natural tendencies of the mind. And I've meditated on the subway. I've meditated backstage at a show, at a pride parade, sitting on the sidewalk up against a brick wall and have a lovely time. And so I heard things like this, like it's just really simple and easy and I was like, that doesn't make any sense to me. That doesn't sound like meditation. And also like, how can something that's so simple and you're not doing much, you're saying it's going to make me healthier, less stressed, happier. And I was like, not for me. And I waited another year. And then when Mormon hit, I had been with Mormon for a few months, and then what hit me was, okay, my life on paper is perfect. I am in a hit show, a very stable job in theater. What you do not expect to be the case, making great money And it's so fun to do why am I not? I should be enjoying my life more. I'm not really enjoying my life to the fullest. And on top of that, the insomnia, the psoriasis, the chronic anxiety. And so almost begrudgingly, I was like, well, I got to try something. And so I went and I learned thinking like, there's no way I'm going to be able to do this one. Just sit there and close my eyes and actually meditate and that it's going to work for me. No way. And then I was like shocked at how easy it was, how nice it felt. And, that was really the first thing was I felt that, the rest what and what I realized was, a year prior and I was like, I feel like this is B.S. Like this doesn't make any sense as to why it's so powerful, and what the aha moment I had was, yes, this practice is very simple and easy and we're not doing much. And that's why it's so powerful. The rest of our lives are so complex and demanding and filled with so many ins and outs and ups and downs and lots of tasks needing to be done is a radical act to sit down and not do much. It is a radical act to be simple and practice simplicity and taking it as it comes. And so that's what I really enjoyed the rest of my day. I was doing eight shows a week, one day off, when I wasn't in a show, I was training, I was in physical therapy, I was at the gym, I was auditioning for other things. And if I wasn't doing any of that, I was in a heap. And so it was this gift to myself every day for those 20 minutes to sit down. And I don't have to be in control. I don't have to be in charge. There's no agenda here. Whatever happens, happens. And I love that. The type of person to me was like once I embraced, it was like, Oh, wow, this is nice. And then back to my day where I had all the demands. And so I really took to it. And within like a month or two I was sleeping through the night for the first time in years. I've never had a bout of psoriasis since. I never had a panic attack again. And, and that was the initial stuff. But then what I loved was I was having it was more so my coworkers and friends like reporting back to me, like how I was changing. They were saying things like, I've never seen you laugh like that before or like, Oh, you seem way more chill. Or My favorite was like, Oh, like there was, we had, we had someone working for the show, like an associate who I just really, really triggered me. And we, I did not really get on with them and they came in one day to give me a note. And usually I would have really gotten amped up about it. And they it happened. They left and I had a few coworkers and then there. Looking at me like wide eyed. And I said, What? And they were like, they were just totally unfazed, like, what the hell? I said, Oh, cool. And so I've been for so long trying using so much effort to be more present, to be less reactive. What I loved about this is that this was really starting at the source, changing from within, how my nervous system handled life's demands. And as a direct result, it resonated outward without me really trying so hard. I was naturally less reactive. I was more present, more at ease. And so, yeah, that all changed. And one of the biggest changes that happened so this was about two years into meditating was that I noticed that my intuition got a lot louder, a lot clearer, a lot harder to ignore. And sort of going back to your kismet is everything organized, that fine level of feeling was just really there. And I find my explanation for that is, when we're stressed, we can still have that gut feeling, but there's so much other stuff. Stress is just taking up so much of our bandwidth and overthinking. It's like too many tabs are open on the computer and so you're not able to really hear the message and hear it clearly. And. And so as I was sort of becoming less stressed, there was just becoming loud and clear. And so one morning I'd had little sort of feelings about it in the past. But then I just had one morning where I woke up and my intuition was just going, Quit your job, quit your job. And at that point, I knew not to question it. I felt solid and okay, I don't know what that means, but it hasn't led me astray so far. So I put in my pick, I put in a month's notice. I emailed them, my agents, my family were going, What are you crazy? Like, this is the golden goose. Don't, don't walk away from it. But I said it just feels right. And the next day, I put in the email, it's been a pleasure. I'm just ready to be off the road. And it feels right to be back in New York. The next day, I got a call from the New York office saying, Buddy, you should quit. We just had to fire somebody on the spot last night in the Broadway company. Would you be interested in coming out to Broadway? We'll fly you out in two days and give you a few days to rehearse. And then you go. And I went, Oh, shit. And so that's how I made my Broadway debut all the time.
Brian [01:26:16] Were you thinking this was the response? This is why I did it. This is.
Hardy [01:26:21] Well, at the time, I didn't when I woke up that morning and said, quit your job, it was not because you're going to be on Broadway. No, it was like, well, I don't know why, but this just feels right. And actually, that night I, I started booking this month long trip to Europe. I was supposed to go. I rented like a farmhouse in the Scottish Highlands, a houseboat in Amsterdam or cabin in Switzerland. I was like, This is what I'm going to do and maybe go back. Yeah. And then the next day it was like, so when it happened then I was like, Oh my gosh, yes, that's what it was. And that's the perfect example of non-attachment. When I woke up that morning, it wasn't like, Oh, well, here's the plan. Like, Oh, I'm going to tinker around. And yeah, here's where I think I might go with it. But then after the fact and we start seeing confirmation of leaping and, the net will appear, it's that was the perfect example of, wow, I didn't know how it was going to play out, but there was a reason I felt that way. And thank goodness I acted because most people would have they in that gut feeling go, Oh, I don't know or hesitate a little too long. Yeah, the train will leave the station and you've missed it. And so that was my confirmation of wow, but that all happened the way it needed to. So, yeah, I mean, I got blown out. I had three it was a different track than I normally played, but so I was an understudy and I covered multiple roles. And so this track on Broadway, it was a different eight night a week. The regular track was different, but all the roles that they covered were the same. So but I did not they didn't have time for what they call a put in where you have to go in during rehearsal and the whole company comes in and you do a run through of the show so you can figure out traffic and placement. I literally was just in a studio with the dance captain by myself, going over, learning new harmonies, reversing choreography, because a lot of time I was on the other side of the stage, the things that I've been doing eight times a week for two and a half years, basically like reverse it, oh, different notes. And you've got, you've got days to figure it out. And so my Broadway debut was sort of getting thrown on and literally we call it Shove with love, go whispering to cast members on stage, like, if I'm in the wrong spot, just nudge me, ? And so it all played out like, you dream as a kid and as the type A control freak. I had the plans and you dream of the day you make your Broadway debut. And that was really the first big iteration of like, man, this was better. I ever could have tried to plan out or think the moment I start leading with feeling and intuition and acting upon that, versus trying to white knuckle it with control and overthinking, look what happens, ? So, so wonderful was there.
Brian [01:29:08] Having spent all that time on the road and in the same show even, was there much of a how big of a difference was there between. Okay, this is Broadway, because you were in big theaters before in Chicago and San Francisco and everywhere else. I mean, that you're in the biggest theater in the city. You're with a very professional production, with very talented actors. And now you're on Broadway. What's what's the level of difference between the show you were doing a couple of weeks earlier and that first show?
Hardy [01:29:40] Yeah. I mean, it's that was another unique experience because it's rare, to go to make your Broadway debut in a show you've already been doing. Yeah. So, like, I had that sort of, it was interesting to discern. So in a sense, it was weird because it was like I was just walking out on another stage and it wasn't really until I like stood up and said my first like, hello. And I was like, Oh, like, this is a dream come true. Like, the ultimate thing that I had been dreaming of. And so a few things. One, there's in general, a lot of Broadway houses are a lot smaller and older and in crowd. Yeah, but more intimate, which is nice because those bigger houses for me personally as an actor, like I want to be able to feel the audience and have that relationship. And when there are too big, it just you lose it a bit. So it's nice to have them in their reactions right in your face. So there's that. Yeah. And then it's also interesting, like, you're with a whole other family and company that you've gotten to know and their flavor of and interpretation of the show. And then you it's like, this is the thing that I've been doing but with totally different people. Yeah.
Brian [01:30:54] Same lines, same spots, but completely different.
Hardy [01:30:57] And seeing their flavor of the show and there were times where, personally, I was like, oh, I don't know about this. Like, this is different. But then like, embracing it And sort of molding and becoming a part of this iteration interpretation of the show, . So yeah, it was, it was unique. And then the team behind it in terms of stage management, dance captains and the people who maintain the show, the crew. But like, for the most part, Mormon like very fortunate that our crew or our teams behind it were really great, in terms of like especially management and like stage management and all that. Like, I mean, on the road, Glenn Turner, who is now stage manager for Charlie and Tina, is still one of my dearest friends, and I consider him family. And then, on and in New York, the team there, every day, during the show, I would go sit in the office and catch up with them. And so but all different but still like, wonderful people to be around. But yeah, there are definitely are differences for sure and a unique experience.
Brian [01:32:08] Did you do you remember a feeling your feelings, your emotions, walking to the show that first night there, it's like, okay, so now I'm not getting on a bus going someplace. This this is the bed's been here in lights. This show has been here for a while and been phenomenally successful. And I'm walking in the cast door because I'm going to be in it.
Hardy [01:32:32] Yeah, yeah. I mean, the moment it hit me because like for the most part that because I had basically like five or six days to like learn all this stuff and then go on the following week, . So I didn't really have much time to be emotional about it because I was just like, Oh my God, I like, how am I going to do this? Like, it was just a very unique situation getting thrown into something like that. And in a sense I'm glad because it was like just you got to you've got too much to learn right now. So don't you can't wax sentimental wax, wax sentimental. And so the moment the two moments that hit me was walking up to theater the first day I was showing up to rehearse or just to get my new music. And as I was walking up and sort of because I had literally just got thrown on a plane the day before, packed up my life. And I was staying with a friend in New York, just crashing until because I had to find an apartment, a place to live. And so but then, like, I was in the thick of all that. And then as I'm walking up to the stage door, yeah, a wave hit me of, wow, this is happening. And don't take a moment because the 12 year old, and you deservedly so, needs a moment to talk, to really feel this and appreciate it. Yeah. And then like I said. The second moment was as the we start it's not really an overture but just that the intro we're all singing backstage as the music starts and that's totally normal. It feels like another Tuesday night, beginning of the workweek. And then I start to walk out. And then the moment I walk out and I'm thinking, Oh, this is something I've done hundreds, 500 times. And I and I go like, Oh, you just took a step onto a Broadway stage like, this is it, and then had that quick moment. And then it was, Oh my God, this is Hello, which is a very complicated song where like, it sounds from outside like it's so cool to hear, but any track you're doing, it is so much counting in your head because it's just. Hello. Hi. Nicole is as as. And so if you're off, the whole thing falls to pieces. So I had one quick. Oh, my gosh, wave. And then it was, oh, my goodness, sweet Jesus, don't blow this. and so back to the the trained actor in me that was just like, all right, back to business, ?
Brian [01:34:57] Yeah.
Hardy [01:34:58] Yeah. So but very special. And but then, what was interesting, and I was so glad that I had already been doing the work for a few years with, with the meditation and just doing the work on, on myself. I'm so grateful that I achieved this great life dream, but that I had already gotten to a place in my life where, like, if it didn't happen, I was okay with it. I had already let go by this point. I was, a few months before all this happened, I was, I was in Florida with the show, and I went back to Florida State where I went to school, and I did a few master classes with the kids. And they took me out to dinner afterwards and they were like, What do you want to do next? these awesome, hungry, hungry kids ready to get out there? And I and I had a moment it sort of caught me off guard, too. And I said, like, honestly, like, I'm happy with what I've done. And yeah, I'm sure there's more to come, but like if I don't work another like in my life in terms of theater, like I'm okay with what I've done, which the old me would have been like, hell no, keep going. There's I called the I'll be happy when syndrome. I'll be happy if I get this I'll be happy when I get this tour. Then I get the train is like, well, I'll be happy when I get another one and the next one. And so it was assigned a report back to me of like, oh, yeah, like you're, I'm, I'm happy with who I am. And this work, these, these, the show doesn't define me and my worth, . And then, of course, right when I get to that point, what, it that it organizes to finally give me that. And so what happens to a lot of people is they get that show because we've been told it's such a unique industry, like there's this one place, these, 30 or 40 theaters that define if you make it better than you are, quote unquote, a success, you've made it. And if you don't get there, you're a failure. It doesn't matter how much else you've worked, your what you've done. And it's so unhealthy, so unsustainable. And so the people that don't get it, they think they have a hard time, understandably so. Go and well, I didn't do what I was supposed to do and I failed. And then the people that do get it, most of them go and they get it and they go, Well, what now? I achieved my life's work. I'm 25, 26 years old. I it's wonderful, but like it didn't solve my problems. And then a lot of people will go through a bit of depression when they get it because they realize that their fulfillment doesn't lie. And this achievement, this acquisition, this person. And so for me, I was very grateful that I had already been doing the work. It did not mean that I was perfect about it, because then what happened to me was I got there and I was like, Wow, this is awesome. But I know. And for me it was more of the curiosity. And yes, there was some frustration as I was trying to parcel it out, but it was more of, well, I know this is in it and I know that there's more for me to do. I don't really know what yet, but this is just another step versus me. Ten years prior, I would have been like, I'm going to go to Broadway and then I'm great. I've made it and that's it. And I'm so glad that wasn't the case. And I had that was really the beginning. And Mormon was the springboard for me to start exploring and like sort of diving in and getting dirty and facing even more stuff that was scary and dark, it gave me that stability to really get moved through all that stuff. Yeah.
Brian [01:38:19] So. You landed the role that you could have kept for almost forever. Right. I mean, you said this is Mormon is one of those rare birds that if you wanted to. This is your retirement gig.
Hardy [01:38:37] Ten years later, I could still be there. I could be there. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian [01:38:41] So. To go for other auditions or look beyond that, it's like, look, you need to get happy with this, because this is the pinnacle. I mean, not only is it in one of those 30 buildings, but it's like the top grossing, the top selling, the one of the better recognized is going to be in one of the top five or ten in perpetuity. Yeah. At some point it will come to an end as well. However, it's not in the foreseeable future. No one can predict that. And it may be. So what do you look forward to now?
Hardy [01:39:17] Yeah, I mean, and that in a sense, it is the pinnacle. But I think also the hard thing for actors is it's so interesting, the way theater industry works, you're taking these people who are wildly creative, who are not very conforming in terms of like, I'm not doing a 9 to 5. These people were naturally inclined to think outside of the box and always look at things from a new perspective. We're naturally creative beings, and yet we're training. And the ultimate goal is to do this job, which is the exact same thing eight times a week, again and again, literally down to the I need just move your hand on this point. Say your line on this line. Move to this number at this note. And that doesn't make any sense. So no wonder you have so many jaded actors and creatives out there because they're not designed to be doing that. And that's not to say it's great you want people to be working and actors deserve to have benefits and insurance and stability in their lives. But of course, it's the challenge I find for a lot of actors where. So, yes, it is beautiful, it's stable. But, people want you to try new things and to go down new creative pathways. And so we often joke about shows like Mormon or Lion King, Wicked Phantom. We call them the Golden Handcuffs. Yeah. Yeah. because it's so enticing and attractive because it's oh, my gosh, the stability and Mormon. It's a fairly good environment. It's fun. It's a fun show to do, . But yeah, I feel a little like it's so uber safe, . And so, yeah, for a lot of people, it's a tough call to make, do I stay for, the for one day? Do I stay for all, being able to live in New York and yes, I'm on Broadway, but am I doing anything new? Not really. and so for me, yeah, like I say, I hit 30 and I've been on Broadway for about a year and a half and my 30th birthday came and then I had to call out of work for about three days because I just I got hit with this emotional I couldn't really put a finger on it at the time, but I just was like dark, dark. And I was like, in a heap.
Brian [01:41:34] And it's triggered by your birthday.
Hardy [01:41:37] I think. I mean, who knows? I mean, whether the wave of 30, astrology people go, oh, your Saturn returns, that way you, you get a lot of reckoning and a big shift, who knows? But it was around that time I sort of use that as a marker because it was right after my birthday party where I just felt horrible and like, what am I doing of Who am I? And this is after like I've already been doing a year of, of work, meditating and exploring myself and, and that also compounded like, which was I laugh at now because at the time like it was, why are you doing this? You've already like figured yourself out. You've already like fixed it all. And I'm like now, like, oh, that was just the beginning of a lifelong, like, journey. This is just the first big like wave, of many waves. If you're going to favor growth, you have to favor discomfort, . And so, yeah, so it was my realization and I think my reality check of, hey, there's still more for you to do. Let's start looking and exploring and, and leaning into that discomfort. What is why are you feeling this kind of way? And so for the next year, year and a half, I, I, did a lot of work, did a lot of exploration, a lot more sort of, I kept meditating, sort of advancing that practice and, working with life coaches and did The Artist Way, which was so great, this workshop just to sort of really just treat myself and explore more of who I am and revamp that creative bug that had been sort of muted from doing almost 2000 productions of the same show. And yeah, the more I just allowed my. Self to feel discomfort, to feel the ups and downs and not feel so hot and face a lot of old stress and trauma and, just did a lot of work, and yeah, I got to a place where about two and a half years into my time on Broadway, sort of the same thing. I woke up and went, Oh, man, I think it's time. And then the first thing my intellect said was, Well, what do you want to do? ? And I said, I don't know. And I remember talking to a life coach that I was working with and I said, I'm having these feelings again of weeping. But at this point, I was like, well, but this is like it. This is the life that I dreamt of. What and like you. And on top of that, I'm okay to an extent with letting that go, but like, I don't know. And she said to me, Well, why do you have to know? And I went, Oh, yeah, wow, you're right. And I had a moment of, Oh, when is this feeling ever led me astray? In the past, like, look at what this beautiful two and a half years, how that came about was for me waking up one morning going leap and I didn't know the details and look how it organized. And so I.
Brian [01:44:36] Reptilian brain needs to know your reptilian brain wants to know. I can't take this step unless I know where I'm going. It's Dick cluelessly stupid to give up something that's working so well for me. I don't.
Hardy [01:44:52] Know. Yeah. And they all knew could happen.
Brian [01:44:54] The fear that all of that just kicks in, just floods the system. It's not like we'll be okay. Why do you have to know? So easy to say that. It's so interesting to think about, but it's almost impossible to internalize and be okay with.
Hardy [01:45:07] Yeah you have to that takes a harbor upgrade and one of the reasons I mean the main reason why meditation was so life changing for me, because a lot of styles of meditation are just sort of like relaxation based techniques, which are lovely, but they're not, like you said. Are you changing that lizard brain, the amygdala, that reactive, because for most people, what's happened is they're not adaptive enough to deal with life's demands. And so when we're not capable enough of meeting all of life's small and large changes of expectation, the amygdala, that lizard brain is sort of the last resort. And so the body's basically going, Hey, I got nothing left here. If you're not going to do anything, I'm just going to hijack. Yeah. And put to take control and react. And so for most people, when Lizard Brain is running the show, reactivity and fight flight freeze that reaction is running the show. You of course, you're not going to feel comfortable following that fine level of feeling and not knowing what's going to happen. You have too much evidence in that lizard brain operation of it's not pleasant, it's not fun. And so what I've been doing for years was slowly changing my nervous system to be more adaptive, have more stamina, staying power, more ability to meet life's demands. There was less need for that lizard brain to run the show. That's why, with this style, there's so many studies that have shown that the amygdala, like, actually like lessons and reasons eases up because we don't need it as much. It's not being triggered because we have other mechanisms at our disposal that we're now nourishing and encouraging to use. And so for me, it was a perfect example of all the years of work I've been doing on a very small place. Those threads I built a new probe, a new operating system. So because that's what people think, instant gratification, that's the society we live in. I want to change everything about my life tomorrow. I want to be less lizard brainy and more like this. This did not happen overnight. This was years of a little thread after little thread not being perfect, but consistently each day showing up for myself and practicing being better, practicing, helping my nervous system change. And then I got the beauty of delayed gratification, seeing all the years of work and then having these beautiful reminders of, Oh, dang, that was worth it. I see what I've been up to, financial change. And so yeah.
Brian [01:47:32] That is a huge point to go back and look at those threads one at a time because that amygdala is not going to let you forget. You remember 130 rejections straight, right? You remember that, right? That's what it's like to walk out from this.
Hardy [01:47:47] Yeah. Yeah.
Brian [01:47:48] And then you have to rewire that to say that's not what it's like to walk out from this. Walking out. Walking out from this is more like what else is out there? What are the possibilities that I'm not aware of? And I'm okay with waiting and being patient until I find them.
Hardy [01:48:02] And that's the beauty of and how we can use our intellect and thinking in a sustainable, productive way, because there's so much talk, whether it's, a lot of styles of meditation or, and the trouble is, for most people, too much thinking, overthinking over intellectualizing. We've got too much of that going on. And yes, but we can better at that. But more often than not, when we think of meditation, it's clear the mind concentrate or remove the thoughts, telling the mind to stop thinking. It's like telling the heart to stop beating. It's not going to happen, ? And so with this style, years of me practicing, not trying to, like, control the mind, it's all okay, and this a much more sustainable way of going about thinking. And what I found over time, my operating system, what gets us into trouble is if we try to use intellect and thinking to try and predict the future, it's not really good or capable of that, but where we can really use our intellect in a productive way, it's almost like as a chronicler, to go back through, when we have these moments of like, will it work out? let's go back and look at the evidence. let me use my intellect like exactly like you said. So now when I have a little moment of like, oh, fine level of feeling is saying it's time for another leap go down this path. I don't know really why I'm feeling kind of go this way. Intellect will go, Oh, I don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. And then I'll check myself and go, wait, go back and show me the evidence, what's happened before when I've done this and I'll go, Oh, well, let's see. Oh, well, this happened. It worked out. It was better than you expected. You handled it. You were capable. Was it always, like, perfect? No. But you are so capable of handling it. And then I go, Well, I've got my evidence. Let's go with that.
Brian [01:49:42] Yeah. And when you made that decision, you couldn't even see the possibility at the time you made it? No, you wouldn't have been there if you hadn't made that decision either. So you would have missed out on that possibility.
Hardy [01:49:53] Exactly. Exactly.
Brian [01:49:55] Because you needed to see before you needed it. You're looking for a step. You're not looking for just the leap. And the universe will provide that right now.
Hardy [01:50:03] And really, the reason I've found for my interpretation of it, I say, what you seek is seeking you, . And so, the reason I'm having this urge to move in that direction, it's already your universal nature going, Hey, I need you over here. Come this way. I, my intellect can't really figure that out. And because it can't, it doesn't know all the details. Yeah.
Brian [01:50:29] What's over there? What are you going to see me? Show me. Let's see a plan. And it's like you just need to trust me.
Hardy [01:50:34] Fine. Level of feeling is going. Oh, that's why I'm getting pulled in that direction. Because it's not, it's so, we're talking about desires and all that in our attachment to it. it's not fulfillment doesn't lie anywhere other than within you, and are you experiencing that. And so, the more we experience fulfillment from within, then people say, well, why am I having desires? Why am I getting pulled in these directions? Why am I moving with this fine level of feeling? It's not that desire is, my fulfillment lies in that desire. No, it's not. I need this or need that. It's more from a basic perspective. Where am I needed? Where is my fulfillment needed? I'm being called in this direction because there's some need of the time that can be met, some new adventure, some new relationships, some new job that is relevant to me and my growth and relevant to them, relevant to the collective. And so, the more we and this all comes not from thinking but from practice and, hardware upgrades in terms of your nervous system and stuff. But yeah, so that's really what happened. Same thing. I woke up after someone said, Well, why, why do you have to know? And I said, Oh, Dave, thanks for the reminder. And the moment I allowed myself to not know, that's when all the ideas started coming up. And the ideas to the first thing that popped into my head was, You got to be and I need a full reset, big pattern interrupt. And I wanted to be in the wilderness for a while. And the first thing that popped into my head, like total opposite of what I've been doing in my life. The first thing that popped up in me, this was right around when Wild came out. Mr. Campbell, Cheryl Strayed book. And in the film I was like, I'm going to hike the Pacific Crest Trail. I'm going to go. And I was so excited. My friends were like, Honey won't shut up about this. I'm like watching YouTube videos of people who had done it. And so that's the direction I thought I needed to be going in. And then after like a month, it started to shift and thank goodness I wasn't too attached to it. I was like, Oh, well, maybe it's not that still like something wilderness like, but I want it to be a little more structured. Then I started looking around and, and NOLs National Outdoor Leadership School, which is one of the most renowned outdoor education programs. They have these programs all around the world where they teach you how to be self-sufficient in nature and lead expeditions. And they had a program in Patagonia, southern Chile, like at the southern tip of South America. And I'd always wanted to go down there. And so I was like, Yes, that sounds great. See, kayaking and hiking and, a month and a half of just being off the grid and learning how to handle it. So I thought about that and I signed up for that. And then I met up. With an ex who was with me when I first started to learn how to meditate. And were catching up. And he looked at me and I was sort of telling him about where I was at and exploring new things. And he looked at me as like, Hardy, why are you not teaching meditation? And I went and he said, You need to be a teacher. And I was like, Oh, really? Oh, yeah. And also that combined with it was about a month or two later, the 2016 election happened. And I woke up the next morning and like a lot of people, just was sort of shocked to see the state of our collective and not to say this side or that side, but just to see that the state of where were at as a collective, were very divided, divided, very reactive, very angry and very stressed. And that was the last thing for me, the aha. Of like, whoa, so what am I going to do about it, rather than where most people were at? And I was that to an extent of like, this sucks. This is terrible how horrible the world is. I had a moment of like, Well, what am I going to do? What can I do about this? And the thing that popped into my head was this practice of meditating and look what it's done for you in the last three or four years. Your life has absolutely changed. And even though it, my coworkers, my friends, my family, even though they're not meditating, they've all benefitted from me being less stressed, less reactive, more empathetic. And so if I could help others do that, change is a grassroots effort. We constantly everyone is looking for change and screaming about we've got to change this and change that and get this person out of power. That person out of power. Any any elected official is simply a representative of the collective consciousness. And until you change the collective you, you are not changing anyone at the top. And if you want to change the collective and have it be a grassroots effort, you want the world to change. You have to change yourself and how you operate. And then when you change, the world changes. And then when you have changed your operating system, how you see the world, then the more you run into other people, they start to shift. When you're more adaptive, less reactive, then that ripple effect occurs. And I had already been meditating enough long enough to see the benefits of what had happened in my community. And so that was the other check out. Okay, this is what I want to do. And if I want to do it, I want to do it right. And so Tom Knowles, like I was mentioning before, sort of the preeminent expert on this practice, this knowledge, he would take, a select amount of people every year and go live in India, the source of all this knowledge and this tradition and train the way it was originally sort of taught and trained. And so I applied for that, got accepted. And so I gave up my job, quit my job on Broadway, gave up my home in New York, my dream life. And I went and did these two things over the next six months. And it was so wild and so amazing. And, the hardest, most challenging things I've done ever in my life. And then people kept asking me, like, what are you going to do after India? Like, what's the plan?
Brian [01:56:34] What's the third thing I know?
Hardy [01:56:36] I'm like, are you going to come back and start performing again? Or like, how are you going to live? Where you where are you going to live? What are you going to do for money? And I kept saying smilingly, like, I don't know, we'll see. And that when people ask me now, like, what's the biggest change you've noticed in your life from practicing meditation and doing all this work? It was it used to be hard for me to quantify because things everything changed about my life, how I see things, how I handle stress, my operating system changed. But now when I ask people, I went from like we started this conversation that the type A, I had to have a plan. I need to be in control. That's the only way I feel safe and sound from that too, with clear love, letting my whole life and everything that I work for go and not needing to know what's coming my way because I had so much evidence for when I would let go of all the wonderful surprises. And it turned out better than I ever could have expected. So now, my life has literally become I travel around, I teach meditation. And yes, now I'm infusing theater into my life again with helping others be healthier and more productive about it. But I don't really plan too far ahead. I'm pretty take it as it comes, because that's what I'm practicing on a daily basis.
Brian [01:57:51] How is that not the I don't know, kind of the woo life that you referred to earlier? Kind of just making fun of it a little bit. It's like, yeah, how is it not become that? How is that different from what you would have made fun of that life earlier?
Hardy [01:58:10] I find the woo stuff comes from I call it almost mood making. there's a lot of woo that we see in life where you've got a lot of people quoting a lot of quotes. Yeah. Reading a lot of material, they can spout off a lot of platitudes and say, Go with the flow, it's all good. Or, a lot of the things I've said in this talk, if we're just keeping it in words, then it's just words. I come across so many people who talk to me and say all the, certain things. And as they're talking to me, I'm like, why are you stressed? Sure. they're smiling and going like, I'm great, I'm great. And they're smiling like a tiger. They're so like they're so stressed out underneath the surface.
Brian [01:58:52] And clinging to this one quote, thinking that's their mindset. And it's like, is that your mindset? It's a quote on your Instagram. That’s all it ever become for you.
Hardy [01:59:01] Exactly. And so it's more of making a mood. And I love that I came into all this as a skeptic. I love and I find that's why a lot of students who come to me, the reason why they come to me is that because I can share like I'm exactly where you were. I agree. Like I am and I am very much I am. I'm an experiential person in general. If you think of it like I, when I started to thrive in life as a kid was when I got out from behind the desk and got on my feet and got in a classroom that was all about experiential education, arts education, being on the wilderness, living in the wilderness, and learning from nature and what I teach now. But how I learned, when I work with students in meditation, I don't talk much about this ahead of time. Yeah, I give an introductory talk on like how it works and how it differs from other styles and my, my story. So they understand how I got to it. The first thing I do is I get the meditating and then, yes, were, we refined the technique, but I want you experiencing it because until you start to use tools that will actually through experience, change your way of operating your hardware, your nervous system, your brain. And until you start practicing that on a regular level, you can think all you want, you can talk all you want. You're not going to truly, substantially change. And so that's why yes, I will. I have knowledge courses and I will, I have mentoring every week with students and diving into the more intellectual side of things. But I never do any of that first because until you start actually changing on an experiential, practical level, none of the words really matter, ? And so the mood making I found or the woo stuff comes from not being able to back it up. And I want you to be able to back everything up through your own experience. And so the talk, I want there's nothing that I teach that can't be explained through experience and confirmed for the experience. And I, I aim to hold myself to that as much as I can so that we don't get into new territory.
Brian [02:01:13] How do you define woo territory now?
Hardy [02:01:17] I mean, it's different for everyone. To me, for it.
Brian [02:01:20] It sounded like you were defining it as something that was just touchy feely, that was off the beaten path, unproven kind of. I mean, that's kind of and I'm maybe I'm using my words there, but I think you have defined it before. And how would you define it now?
Hardy [02:01:33] Yeah, and that's what I was about to sort of, go in and amend just to everything I just said is that it also comes down to your perspective and what works for you. And so there are certain people, people out there where, certain people are going to think is this is woo. And other people are it's just how you're looking at it. For me, I'm sharing my unique perspective of yeah, like if me from 15 years ago, but here, the way I'm talking right now, I would be like, Oh my God, what is this? but after 15 years of, all these years of work and growth, this is now sort of me reporting on my experience. So, I mean, I think it's all in the eye of the beholder, like what is it for you? But, woo. Like I said. So for me now, whereas in the past I have been like any of this stuff about any of this stuff, me when I was just, dependent on stress and, go, go, go all the time. Anything that in terms of self-care and taking care of yourself would be woo. Because that's easy.
Brian [02:02:38] Is that self-care as well. Well how crazy is that to look back on that. Right.
Hardy [02:02:42] Yeah. Well and we've, we've all associated self care with selfishness and there are many for most people because of how we're operating. It can be selfish because, I tell students all the time, rest is inevitable. It's going to happen. It's either are you going to deliberately rest and curate rest meaning like what we're doing basically with the style of meditation, this style shown to be five times deeper than sleep in terms of, heart rate, blood pressure, metabolic rate, oxygen consumption rate. This is like the practical stuff I'd like to talk about. Yeah, but are you deliberately. Curating a rest regimen in your life. Then you're resting on your own terms. If you don't, you will have enforced rest, which is burnout, illness, the body basically forcing you to stop. And that's where things can become selfish. I was working with students this last semester at this university, and we had to have this conversation because the term mental health day was very popular. And in terms of as someone who is a huge proponent, and that's really what I spend my life working on now, I had to sit down with these kids and check them because I would get these emails right before class or a rehearsal going, I'm taking a mental health day, I can't come. And I had to sit down and go, Hey, I want you to better. I want you to be healthier. And I'm telling you right now, you are not doing that. When you say mental health, right now I'm taking mental health that you are actually saying I'm not taking care of my mental health. I'm getting to a place where I can no longer function. And so I have to shirk all of my responsibilities running away. And so what are you. So let's talk about and let me help you equip yourself with tools that will help you to move through the demands of life and handle it so that we don't end up in a heap or running away. And so through productive self-care is actually one of the most selfless things you can do. We just have to clarify and discern, is what we are doing in terms of self-care and the way I find we know that it's, it's, it's selfless versus selfish. How many aside from ourselves, how many other people are benefiting from this? It's not to say in terms of selfless that I don't benefit. It's the combination I benefit. And by me benefiting everybody else around me, benefits versus the selfish kind of self care. And what I find the stuff can often be is me, me, me. I'm running away. I'm shirking all my responsibilities. I'm just leaving it all behind in a not in a productive way. And people are to other people's detriment versus when I take a little time every day to refill my tank, to clean off a little bit of stress, I think I tell people I think of what this practice it's like brushing your teeth for your nervous system. I give every day. you didn't brush your teeth. It wouldn't take long for it to not to be pretty unpleasant for you and others around you. Same thing with stress. If we don't, every day we might not be having massive trauma, but we have a little stress and sometimes bigger stresses and the body holds on to that. It accumulates. That causes us to be less healthy, efficient, happy. And it's like pigpen from the peanuts, you start to like stink of stress. And so if were taking time to brush that off every day, everybody else benefits from that as well. It's the whole put on your own oxygen mask first before putting on others. And so I find that the best way to, from my own personal experience and perspective, what it all comes down to, your viewpoint. And I can't dictate what's removed for some people, but it's what's benefiting. Yes, of course. Yourself, but also the collective and favoring, self-care. Why is it not? it's so hard for a lot of people to understand. And myself included, I waited a year after hearing all these benefits before I actually learned, why are we not actually making this more of a non-negotiable? Just like showering or brushing your teeth or working out or whatever it is that's non-negotiable for you. You deserve this, ? Yeah.
Brian [02:07:01] So how much of your current self-care and philosophy rolls over into nutrition and exercise? And I've heard you mentioned rest before, but I haven't heard you talk specifically about either of those.
Hardy [02:07:20] Yeah, I found yeah. I mean I'm not a at I Vedic is sort of the nutrition side of this whole with yoga and meditation or whether it's that or, any kind of nutrition. But no, I keep myself active. it is interesting going from like based not like an actual professional athlete. People forget with Broadway performers or dancers like I, I've taught now professional athletes, Major League Baseball players, how to meditate and like when we share our life stories and our training process and getting to where we're at, it's like, Oh, this is exactly the same, how we trained and what we did. But it's interesting, going from a professional athlete to now, my job is teaching people to sit on their bums and not do much of teaching people how to be easy interests. And so I needed some time away from, my body was my commodity and terms of like. Performing. And I had to take care of it like and push it and try and maintain it to the best of my abilities. And I had a few years where I really was not that active because I was just enjoying letting my body be. And the last few years it's actually been pretty nice to come back to training and conditioning and dancing, like teaching a dance class again and moving, but like from a place of, like, I want to do this because it's fun and productive and there's a sustainable way to do it. And not just because I feel like I should. And, and yeah, nutrition, I'm not overly over the top about like, everything that I'm putting into my body all the time. But I tell people with my practice how, for all my talk of meditation, it's a life enhancer. So whatever is working for you, the habits, behaviors, relationships, eating habits, workout routines, anything that's relevant to you and working for you in your life, those will just naturally be enhanced over time, the more you do it and the habits, behaviors, relationships that are no longer serving you, they just are falling away. And that's what will happen. I've noticed over the years is there's certain like cravings or habits where I just feel like I almost forget to be like, wait here, do that, go. Oh, it wasn't relevant anymore. And I love that because rather than trying so hard to let go of this or that, it just it happens in its own time when we start to optimize from the source. the analogy I like to use in terms of like, substantial self-care. Most people when they're doing all these quick fix things or like using a quick app or a quick fad or whatever, it's like looking at a tree and the tree is dying and it's withering and all the leaves are turning brown and everyone's most people are running to the tree going, Oh, we've got to fix the tree, get some green paint, and let's paint the leaves green. I'm just changing the surface. That's not actually changing anything. Will you still fall off even though they've been painted green, when all we really have to do is just water the root, and then naturally, when the root gets watered, all the leaves start coming back and thriving and getting fuller and greener. And so same thing. If you nourish the root on the regular, all of your nutrition, your habits, your behaviors, your health, that starts to change and become more vibrant and nourished in your own unique way. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm not an absolutist. I've never been especially as the years have gone by. It's nice and the recovering perfectionist mode like to really ease up on absolutism. And so, people will say, oh, do I need to be a, a vegetarian or do you need to do this or that? And it's going to be different for everyone. And I say, yeah, there, can I easily be a vegetarian? Most of the time, yeah. But then am I craving a burger every now and then? Yeah. And I have a burger, . So I find when we don't let dogma creep in to our, our well-being and our, our, our health, but it's all for the best. Yeah. Now.
Brian [02:11:20] Okay. Are there are there other topics or ideas you've had that you've wanted to share that I've jumped in or we missed. Mhm.
Hardy [02:11:29] Oh no. That's like coming, coming to mind. I like it like I said and that's sort of why I left the with you. Like I love to see where things go . Yeah, but things, what's, what's relevant, what's feeling relevant to talk about and letting it roll from there. But I think the unifying factor and talking about where, where for me personally, I've come so far in my life, because, recently when I agreed to go back and be a theater professor that was offered to me right before the pandemic. And the way it all happened was I was giving an intro to meditation talk at this theater program at a university, and someone asked me, theater and a meditation, and you've told me the story. But like, do you ever see yourself doing theater again? Like, how does this all connect? Like, do you miss it? And I my response was, I really don't miss it that much because the through line that I've found is that, I love theater. Yes. Because it was safe for like the queer little kid in me, but also it was transformation. I love the aspect of transforming into someone else, finding excuse me, finding some truth and also the aspect of transforming the people in the audience to theater is this beautiful celebration of humanity in all of its many facets, celebrating it, discovering, exploring, mourning, grieving. And you have that very tangible connection between audience and performer. And there's an act of transformation there. And then now what I do, I help people transform. I help people help themselves better and live to their. Potential. And so there's still that transformation and that connection there just on a more intimate, powerful level. And so that was sort of my response to them. And then I sort of ended it with a little cheeky but never say never, . And as I was walking out, like I said, the head of the program said on that note, would you be interested in directing a show? And without even thinking, I said, without even thinking. And I have been presented with performing gigs And all these theater gigs after I had left the industry. And I was no, no, no, no, no. Don't miss it. Don't ? No, thanks. And then the moment he said that, I literally just went, yes. And then I went, What? No. Oh, my God. Wait, wait, wait. You don't do that anymore. You're a meditation teacher and you do this now. And little did I know that was my all perfectionist control, binary thinking of this is what you do, stick to this path. And but I knew at the same time, once again, when that fine level of feeling comes in, people ask me, how do I know if I'm following that intuition? How do I know if I'm moving in that flow state? And I say from my experience, it's this new sequence where we have that by and level of feeling. Then we act without hesitation and then thought is tertiary versus maybe a hesitation. Then I overthink it. And then the bus, the train's left the station, and our thoughts are sort of comes last and goes, oh, oh, oh. It's like confirmation. Oh, yeah, okay. I guess that makes sense. So I said yes to that.
Brian [02:14:52] Yeah, that is fascinating. How that became your instinctive response. Yeah. This level of feeling was, was what you were drawing on for your instinctive response.
Hardy [02:15:00] Yes. Yep. That's it.
Brian [02:15:01] I love that. That was that was really interesting.
Hardy [02:15:04] Yeah. And then about a week later, an old director friend of mine, I saw a casting call on social media that he was directing, a play that I really enjoyed. And I just sort of a message and said, Oh my gosh, so excited for you. Can't wait to see what you do with it. Congrats. And then he said, Do you want to play this role? And without even thinking of it, yes. I go, What is happening? I am a meditation teacher now. I don't do this kind of stuff. Why is my gut keep going? Yes. And sort of and I'm okay with. Yes, but I'm like, why? And then I went off to India. This was a month into January and February of 2020. And I was just really trying to figure out, like, am I giving up on becoming a meditation teacher? Is am I am I failing or what? Am I . Yeah, like giving up. And then what I realized was, oh, no, this is universal nature going, hey, you still have all these talents and abilities. Yes, that old lifestyle was no longer relevant. That eight shows a week, but don't mute or cast out all these wonderful perspectives and experience and talents. They're still relevant and merge it. I felt like that was big self going, Hey, don't go back into this western binary thing of either or you can be. There's only, if you could think of anything else, do that. No. we have a wide array of abilities. And this idea really, I think, a byproduct of capitalism, you've got to do this one thing and do it all the way. This was my lovely and sort of this is the new chapter I'm in now where, I was being nudged into owning and stepping into my multifaceted ness and seeing how all of this connects together. I needed time to, like, really embrace my new passion of meditation and doing that and getting that under the ropes and how to do that to the best of my ability. And then after a few years, nature was going, hey, hey, bring, bring the old stuff into zero, yeah, yeah.
Brian [02:17:13] And then bring your whole self into it.
Hardy [02:17:16] Yes, yes. All inclusiveness and really, that's what it's really all about. And, nine non-binary in terms of, and enlightenment and a full breadth experience of life is really a non-binary experience, meaning it is not an either or shallow deep this or that. It is all of it all at once. And that was my check to go. Hey, remember to live that way. Don't exclude things that are still relevant to you. So and then the pandemic happened, right? Massive enforced political correction and of course, correction and growth, that evolution. And so the production that I was going to perform and that got canceled and never came back and then I sort of let go of the directing gig and then I got, was teaching meditation and focusing on that. And then this time last summer, the university reached out to me and said, hey, we're we are. Finally wanting to do the show and we'd love for you to do it. And I said, I don't know. it's been so long. Same director that they wanted me to direct it, ?
Brian [02:18:29] Oh, yeah.
Hardy [02:18:30] Okay, yeah. And so this was the head of the department and. And then they. Yeah. I'd said earlier when they offered me a professor job, that's where I was wrong in the, in the story, they offered me the directing thing first. Okay. Then they said, we'd love for you to come back. And my without even thinking, I just said, what? If you let me teach. Be a professor, run a course or two. And allow me to infuse meditation and self-care into your curriculum and rehearsal process, then I'll direct your show. And I, I sort of left it at that, and I was like, There's no way they're gonna let me do that, because I, I tried to bring this to other theater programs, and I think it's just the and no one was interested in like having me come and teach self care, which is so funny because like once again when I talk to all my colleagues in the industry, we all look back on it now and go, I spent thousands upon thousands of hours training and not once did anyone train me to be a healthy human being. And I was so it's just so lacking in the arts training curriculum. And so I was trying to do it, but I think a lot of it is that suffering artist mentality. I don't deserve to have this and I, I get my good work from suffering, and, and then we start this toxic, non unsustainable path. So anyways, I was like, this might be my end but the product would be interested in. They call me right back and they're like, Sure, I'm interested. I said, Oh, well, I guess I'm, I guess I'm doing that. And I said, Well, first time directing, first time, being a college professor, coming up with a syllabus. And I had no idea what I was doing, but the semester was so rewarding. I mean, our first week of rehearsal was the meditation course, and it wasn't forced on anybody. Anybody who wanted to come would come. But about three fourths of the cast came and they couldn't. They were like, Wait, this is rehearsal. And I was like, Yes, we're about to go through a demanding period and I want to equip you with tools. Yes, they cared yourself and they were like, what? And this was it was a big production musical. We had, COVID and virtual quarantines and, we had to cancel our first the last night of tech, which are, so important. And everyone kept commenting to us, why is this going so smoothly like this? We thought this was supposed to be the hard show And everything. You're ahead of schedule. Everybody's doing okay. And I said, well, hello, though we like we're actually taking time to take care of everyone as a unit. And so naturally we're having a more productive production. And so it's given me a blueprint for now, I, I'm sure I'll go back at some point, but I felt relevant for me to now sort of take this on the road and now, I'm talking with universities and they're having me come in for, like a week at a time. And we're doing like, I'm calling it the Healthy Already Healthy Artist Masterclass, where I teach the meditation. And then also, yes, theater, math, master classes, how to apply all the stuff we've been learning in terms of self-care into our training and our art and all that. I'm really looking forward to all that. I mean, I've been spending all summer just back to meditation and helping teach people how to be less stressed. But I'm really grateful to see how things have all blended together and integrating all of my passions. And for all of us, that's the key, is realizing you have all your unique abilities, traits, quirks. You have them for a reason, you have them for all the reasons. And we need to get rid of this notion of I can only do one. there's probably a big reason that you have all these unique abilities because that's your unique flavor and you have a unique perspective and array of talents. Don't, don't hide them, don't mask them, ?
Brian [02:22:23] And what those are. Yeah, you already know what those are. Have a hint to them or a really good feel for it. Yeah. So yeah. Just discover that in yourself and then allow that to happen.
Hardy [02:22:36] Yeah. And get curious. And I watched that. Joni Mitchell is one of my biggest idols and creative inspirations and, and someone sent me a video an old like from the, from the eighties or someone was asking her because a lot of people don't realize, like, she's one of the greatest songwriters of all time, but she's also an accomplished painter, beautiful voice. She's a pro. She produced everything she did, play, produce, write, do everything. And this video, someone was asking her, like, oh, are you so do you consider yourself more of a singer or more of a painter? And she sort of looked and said, it's all I'm all of it. And she said, I came from a family of farmers and, you would work on this crop in this season. And that crop and that season. And so there are times where, when I'm writing and doing poetry, where I need to be doing that full force. And then I get a little burn out. And when I get burnt out on that, rather than just constantly dragging myself through it, I'm realizing, Oh, it's time for me to do a little bit of painting. And then I start painting because that feels relevant. And then when I get a little burnt out on painting that I got to do some singing and it's all there. And so we have all these things that we can be curious about that we don't. And each one won't always feel the most relevant. But that's where, once again, our fine level of feeling comes into play. We don't need to eliminate anything, but it's all there. It's really, if you think about it, it's our arsenal, . And so whatever is feeling relevant at the time, we go with that and we use that because there's obviously some need for it in the collective. Mm hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, a new chapter. And I think that's the only other thing that's feeling for me that's coming up is definitely in a chapter after all this great adventure. And I can't wait to see what happens next is it's this really sweet merging of everything, everything, all the different talents and paths and abilities and having it become this beautiful, sort of non-binary experience.
Brian [02:24:42] Now you do most of your training face to face. You don't have a course material that you download and watch these videos, and you don't necessarily do a lot of consulting on Zoom. It's I'm where you are and multiple days of that.
Hardy [02:25:00] Yeah. So I mean for the, for the beginner sort of standard for day four, it's over four consecutive days. Each day is only like an hour and a half session. But I know some teachers that have moved online, especially during the pandemic. I've just found in my own research I'm such a fan of experiential education, like I've mentioned, and it just does not have the same impact as, online. it's so much more worth it that delayed gratification to wait until you can be with me or another colleague of mine in person and have some time one-on-one. Because like I said, this is nervous system work. This is not just, oh, let me get you to like relax and breathe for a second. I want to help you change your nervous system. And if that's the case, I want to be with you, because for some people, it can be very emotional. It can be very powerful. I want to have time with you one-on-one. We also do have a group settings and that can be great too, like in-person to work with one another and make sure that you have a full understanding of what it means to start changing your life on the regular. And I want to the whole point of like being with someone for four days is I want to get them to be self-sufficient. once you finish working with me, you technically don't need me anymore, which I think is important too. I don't need to be guided by anyone or anything. But that's not to say that once I finish that initial course with someone, it's so long, suckers. I'm out of here. part of what people get when they first sign up with me is, once you learn with me, you've got me as a teacher for life to the extent that you want it like I do. from there, we're a little more open in terms of now the beauty of Zoom. So once you learn, like I do group meditations with people who have learned in-person wherever I'm at, because I travel all the time, but I do group meditations over Zoom every Sunday. I have weekly like mentoring groups and individual mentoring sessions that I can do over Zoom. But, if you're going to start with me, I want you to be ready to invest in yourself, and I want you to be able to, like, take that next step. Yeah, there are a lot of easier steps, but whether it's, and great ways to start, whether it's an app, a quick little thing. But by the time you get to me, I want to make sure you're ready to fully invest in your life and really substantial change. And so part of that is, yeah, being in-person, having more time together and it's sort of a way to show to yourself as a teacher. Yeah, but for really for you that you are ready to take substantial steps in and changing how you take care of yourself on a regular basis.
Brian [02:27:46] What is and I'm just going to throw this in here, too. I'm going to put it in the show notes as well. But they can find out more information about all your programs that Hardy Weaver dot com, right?
Hardy [02:27:55] Yeah. Hardy Weaver dot com. Hardy. Why like the boys Weaver Like dream weaver. I guess that's the first thing that goes by. Yeah. And it's got more information about just what I do, how this is different from other styles, how the course works. And, and I'm also like able, you can go on and schedule like a free introductory talk. I always like to, before people learn, like just talk. Get them and share my experience, getting into this, how it all works. there's never any obligation to sign up for a course. I just like to sit and talk with people for whether it's for 5 minutes or for an hour so they can go do that. I'm always my social media. I'm on Instagram. Party underscore Weaver. I think that's the term for the space thing. And that's sort of me sharing my knowledge, adventures, my perspective on things. And usually I'll share, any updates on upcoming courses around the country. Yeah. And if I'm not in your area, I'm one of the more nomadic teachers. But if I'm not in your area, like, I can easily hook you up with a teacher that's nearby. That'll be great to work with. Yeah. Okay.
Brian [02:29:15] Mm hmm. Another question I had for you is which of your teachings or values that you impart to others? Is do you find is most difficult for you right now? You find yourself like, man, I really, really fight with that one. Or I need to do better with that one. Is there is there one in particular?
Hardy [02:29:35] It's a good question. Let's see what comes up. Hmm. You can edit out this post.
Brian [02:29:46] Yeah, I absolutely can.
Hardy [02:29:51] It's all coming for you, baby. That's. That's, sometimes the baby isn't in there, but that's more to myself. that. I think what is good for me to remember, even though we've just spent hours talking about this, I still, I still practice it and I still catch myself, of course, or, thinking or wanting to know, especially now that my life is Uber not planned and I'm flying by the seat of my pants. And what's it going to be like? How is it going to this I the last two weeks of teaching, I didn't have plan two weeks ago and it's been these wonderful courses and great awesome people and been so fruitful. And two weeks ago, I was going, my mind naturally wanted to go into, oh, what are you going to do? Where are you going to be? How are you going to pay the bills? How is that going to all work? And for the most part, I could go, okay, we're going to be good. It's all set. Like I said, use the intellect to go back and be like, You've been fine before. It'll all organize. And so a good thing that I could use more of and that I've, and that, this current life situation and what I just wrapped up a great, great two courses here in Raleigh, in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. It's all coming for you when the mind wants to. Do the how, it's not going to work out. Worst case scenario, my gosh, like I have too much birth in my life with all the work that I've done. And that's what I tell my students, too. You've been doing so much work. When you get too concerned, just take a moment and say to yourself, It's all coming for you. It's all organizing. from this world view that only comes from reports on the experience of what happens when people do this work. Life is organizing the way it needs to organize. It simply much simply comes down to how much are you resisting it getting in the way? it's still coming for you. It just going to be more delayed versus if you get out of the way or move with it, surrender to it, it'll be there and be a lot less friction filled. And so for me, in the thick of all this new integration and multifaceted sort of combining and, all that, it's good for me to remind myself as a yes, as a, a student, that life is organizing the way it needs to. And I don't always need to know.
Brian [02:32:26] Okay. I'm going to ask one more time. Is there is there something else that we want to cover? Any other topics that you've been considering that you want to. Hmm?
Hardy [02:32:36] Not that I can think of. The only other thing that comes up, we've talked a lot about stress and, all that stuff. But I think the thing I would leave folks with there's we talk about fight or flight and all that kind of stuff. And my biggest wish for myself And other people as well as relax and enjoy, we could all use more of that. And like I said, it's one thing to say it, but can you experiences and, capitalism? Someone shared this with me recently, which I really like. Capitalism an unfortunate symptom of capitalism is there's always the sense of urgency. See, everything has to be now, and I'm not doing enough. And I've got to push harder. And like, it's an illusion. It's a social construct. And so out of the hours that we just spend talking, if there's anything you can do today that I wish for you, is to simply take time to stop, be a little slower, and enjoy, take note of what's going around you and enjoy yourself. everything else will take care of itself when it needs to, but the world will come crashing down if you take a moment to stop and enjoy. And actually the world will. Actually, I found the world desperately needs more people to stop and be easy and rest and enjoy enhance their joy. That's really what enjoyment means, the enhancement of joy. So no, that's really it.
Brian [02:34:09] That, that's a great thought. It actually reminds me of something I've been thinking of for years is I need to find my pace. Mm hmm. I am very familiar with and very comfortable and very not necessarily addicted, but trained to behave, to run at top speed, and to be more efficient and chug off more things and get more done today, because that means there'll be less to do tomorrow, which is a fallacy. You can run just as hard tomorrow and still lose ground or feel like you're losing ground.
Hardy [02:34:43] That's more often the case. Yeah.
Brian [02:34:45] Exactly. Yeah. But then I find out when I do relax in when I eat what I do said the tendency is to do something and so it's to turn on the TV and to watch a show or to binge watch. There's no there's nothing in between that I am either on running full speed or I am off just vegging out in front of the screen. Yes. And yet to find that time in between and feel comfortable with sitting.
Hardy [02:35:13] Yeah.
Brian [02:35:14] And relaxing and having a thought and just sitting with that thought or that feeling for a little bit without having it compel you to stand up. And what are you going to do about it? You can't just sit here and think about it. You need to stand up and do something. But we will eventually. Eventually, I will get out of this chair and I will go do something. But how can I make the best use of this time? And maybe it's sitting setting a limit, like you said, 20 minutes, a half an hour and say for the next 6 minutes, I am just going to sit here. I'm not going to reach for the remote and I'm not going to reach for a book, which is another big go to because I feel like I'm doing something. Yeah. And then I set goals for how many books I should read a year. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're turning that into the other. It's ridiculous.
Hardy [02:36:00] And that even happens with meditation, many different meditation styles and mindfulness. when people ask me, what's the difference between what you do and other styles of meditation? And there are a number of different, ways to discern. But the most the why I find this to be so transformative and different from other styles is that's wonderful is mindfulness and many other styles of concentration based techniques and contemplative based techniques of meditation are even if they're relaxing, there's still some bit of an agenda there. There's still some bit of a goal. There's still some doing, whether it's focus on your breath or clear the mind or think about this. the word surrender. My mantra is surrender or relax or there's a bit of an expectation there. There's a bit of an agenda and some effort, an end point product orientation. And that's not too far off. It's just a very subtle micro, version of what's getting us into trouble in life or the same habit, which is product orientation, expectation control, agenda setting. And so, yes, that might give us a wave of relaxation, but it's not addressing our issues of being too tied into, like you were saying, doing something. And so what's so radical about this style is, yes, there structure to it. Yes, there is. we we prescribe certain types of mantras, but the way we use it is very different. But the goal ultimately with this style is no goal. In those 20 minutes, whatever happens, happens, the mentality is take it as it comes. And so it, it, it is so radical to sit down and practice not just doing but being. That's really what we're doing here. And I don't say, that's why it's also I need four days with you because it takes a lot to sort of break down these notions of do this, do that. I can't just say to you, we'll just be we've bought one.
Brian [02:37:56] Just be.
Hardy [02:37:56] Yeah, no that. Oh, God, that would you that would trigger the hell out of me. that takes four days of hey, let's go through all the ins and outs and work and let me show you the best ways sort of around how to move through this. But, there's a line in the in the Veda, this body of knowledge that I really, really resonates with me and why. And it sort of sums up why. I find this practice to be so powerful and it goes roughly translated do less, accomplish more, do least, accomplish most, do nothing, accomplish everything, do less, accomplish more, do least, accomplish most do nothing, accomplish everything. And that's really what we're doing here. Like you were saying, like, we have this. It's just ingrained in us. Go, go, go. I've got to be doing something. And then what happens in our self-care time is, oh, well, I still have to be doing something. And, and it is very radical and transformative to practice not doing much, just little bits in our day. And it really throw a wrench in that machine of what's been causing us to not feel so hot and to be so stressed. By doing less, we accomplish more. I was just working with a CEO and, the head of a company was really, living a demanding life. And were really having to get adaptive to, like, fit in times to work together. And also just to, is like, how am I going to schedule in like, I don't know if I can do 20 minutes twice a day, like look at my schedule. And so were really having to talk about that. And what I found with people like that, I'll be interested to hear when they come back and report. But more often than not, the people that and who say that to me like you're telling me, I need to add in 40 minutes to my day. That doesn't make sense, but I'm already too busy. When they come back to me, even after a few months, they'll go, it's funny you had me add in 40 minutes to my really busy day, and now I find that I have more time in my day. What the heck? And so what's happened is, yes, you've added in more time of rest, replenishment, stress release and not doing much. That's how we're doing all that. And in doing all that, now you're getting through all the tasks of your day in a more efficient manner. You're less stressed so you can meet things in a more creative, intelligent way. You can respond instead of react. You're not being pulled in a million different directions. You can meet your tasks better. And so we end up having more time, even though we've added in a little bit more self-care time. But that's what's happening. That whole due less accomplish more. We need a break from all that doing. Yeah.
Brian [02:40:32] Well, I've really enjoyed our time together. I mean, I honestly, I can't emphasize that enough. It was very nice meeting you.
Hardy [02:40:39] Peter, but I'm so glad this worked out and shout out to Charlie for.
Brian [02:40:43] Yeah, for sure. I'll have to reach out to him because yeah, I really appreciate this and, and kind of like I told Charlie part of this strangers, is now I would want to ask you, who else should I be talking with? Yeah, I don't know everybody. And I don't know all the topics that should be addressed. And so kind of turning that over to you, I'm saying, who's another stranger? We should know.
Hardy [02:41:07] Yeah, but I've already got one up. Right? Oh, that's awesome.
Brian [02:41:11] That's wonderful.
Hardy [02:41:12] Yeah, I've got, I've got I think, I know someone with a really great, life and story and has been through some great challenges and come through on the other side and I think would be really interesting to for folks to hear their perspective.
Brian [02:41:27] So I'd love to talk about some and I'm going to. You have any closing things to say?
Hardy [02:41:32] I think I've said all that needs to be said. Yeah.
Brian [02:41:35] Thank you so much for your time. This has been great.
Hardy [02:41:38] Yeah. Thank you, Brian. So nice to get to talk with you. And I'm really appreciative of what you're doing because, yeah, we need more of this. And I hope you continue to get rich a wide breadth of perspective and experience because yeah, we need more people listening. Lots more listening. Yeah. So thank you.
CLOSING
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